Chiefs are 63m under the cap

[ShowtimeSBMVP]

nick wright@getnickwrightReply
Always KC. RT @MattPomPom Teams with most salary cap room(in millions): KC $63, TB $60, CIN $60, DEN $51, WAS $48, JAC $45.

[jd1020]

Originally Posted by scott free

NFL.com/stats

Where's the "overall" option?

[jspchief]

Originally Posted by scott free

NFL.com/stats

Based on # of receptions, he's 10th

[Easy 6]

I stand corrected, not overall but in receptions.

Is that not a good enough indicator of production? is he going to be #1 in td's with the motley crew of qb's he's had? the mismanaged offenses?

Hopefully, he'll get a consistent offensive approach & a decently talented qb this year, then we'll see where everyone stands.

[BossChief]

Bowe is open a lot when Cassel isn't looking his way.

The playoff game was a perfect example of that. Everybody that was there knows Bowe was wide open for 2 touchdowns.

That shit happens all the time.

I think if we had a quarterback that could spread the ball around, Bowe would be getting wide open looks all the time and we would have a guy that can get him the ball in those situations without hesitation.

22 is a stretch, but I could see him catching 19 or 20 TDs with a legit quarterback and the weapons we have.

[Hog's Gone Fishin]

Bowe is not the only reciever that was open A LOT that didn't get looks. Baldwin was open on MULTIPLE occassions. We need a QB that can look downfield , thats for sure.

[O.city]

One reason I wouldn't mind to keep Orton is that he does chuck it down field. I could stand more INTs if it's from him being aggressive down the field.


I think Baldwin would benefit alot from Orton.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by BossChief

Bowe is open a lot when Cassel isn't looking his way.

The playoff game was a perfect example of that. Everybody that was there knows Bowe was wide open for 2 touchdowns.

That shit happens all the time.

I think if we had a quarterback that could spread the ball around, Bowe would be getting wide open looks all the time and we would have a guy that can get him the ball in those situations without hesitation.

22 is a stretch, but I could see him catching 19 or 20 TDs with a legit quarterback and the weapons we have.

Just because a guy looks open to us, doesn't mean he was open. I've seen CP do this several times, blaming Cassel for not spotting the open man, and in many cases, they're dead wrong. If CP members saw him wide open... no offense to people here, but I know people hate Cassel enough that they will often see things the way they want to see them... I'm skeptical. I don't know if defenses know Cassel isn't going to look their way, so they back off Bowe. I don't know if they pull away from Bowe because they know Cassel's about to get rid of the ball. I don't know if the read is that there is clear help defense in a place we don't anticipate it--I don't know how many times I've heard CP complain about missing a wide open man, when there's clearly a deep safety off the screen that would eat a pass alive.

Again, I'm not saying he's good or bad in these situations. I'm saying we just don't know. Yes, I think he'll be better with a much better QB. But the big game stuff... we just don't know yet if he's good enough to consistently beat elite corners and defenses when they're keying in on him. DJ's Left Nut points out very good reasons why he probably won't do it as well as an elite receiver would.

Again, I'd pay him the moon. But let's be realistic about what kind of player he really is.

[O.city]

Just ask yourself this zilla, if you put Cassel with Fitz or Megatron, would they put up the numbers they do now?


I think Bowe is a great wr, but a record setting guy I don't see it like Boss does.

I also don't know why Bowe has to be a top 3 guy. Is there anything wrong with having a top 6 or 7 wr in the league?

I agree that you are saying he hasn't done it in big games, but for me a wr is only as good as the quarterback given him. I would like to see what Bowe and Baldwin could do with Orton.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by scott free

With a cohesion killing collection of Cassel, Palko & finally Orton, not too mention the absolute confused mess of the offense in general this year... Bowe still wound up in the top 10.

Theres no way that a full year with ONE solid qb doesnt vault him into the top 5, and thats elite no matter how you want to slice it... and i'll simply refuse to hear the tired 'stats dont matter' argument, if they didnt matter they wouldnt be kept, they are proof positive of production, period.

No, they are not proof.

The best tacklers in the league often come from the worst defenses, because they can't get off the field. Mike Maslowski was a tackling machine for a horrible Chiefs' defense. Kyle Orton was one of the most productive passers in the league two years ago. Terrell Davis is one of the most productive single-season rushers of all time, and Denver always had bad RBs run for over 1,000 yards.

None of those guys are elite. Yes, you have to be pretty good to get past a certain level of production. But when you're trying to compare Bowe to Fitzgerald or Andre Johnson, it's pretty damn important to understand how they're getting yards rather than whether they're getting the same number of yards.

[banyon]

Screw the Patriot Way, this is the Wal-Mart way, like they practice across the parking lot. Now we just have it with both teams. Awesome.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by O.city

Just ask yourself this zilla, if you put Cassel with Fitz or Megatron, would they put up the numbers they do now?


I think Bowe is a great wr, but a record setting guy I don't see it like Boss does.

I also don't know why Bowe has to be a top 3 guy. Is there anything wrong with having a top 6 or 7 wr in the league?

I agree that you are saying he hasn't done it in big games, but for me a wr is only as good as the quarterback given him. I would like to see what Bowe and Baldwin could do with Orton.

No, I never said he has to be top 3. I'm saying pay the guy. I'm just puzzled that people are so convinced that he's an elite receiver in this league or that he's going to shatter records. Again... the key for me is not stats or where he ranks. I want to know if he's a guy who will make big plays and can put together 3-4 straight badass playoff performances, even if elite defenses and corners get in your way. We just don't know that yet.

Yes, I believe Fitzgerald and Megatron could make bad Quarterbacks good in ways Bowe does not. They are more athletic, they are much quicker... these guys are just fine even as jumpball receivers--you just throw the ball up, and these guys are going to find a way to catch it. Fitzgerald had terrific production last season, by the way, around a shaky QB situation.

The other thing to keep in mind is that Orton and better talent around him makes the offense better, but it's probably going to make Bowe less productive. Charles is going to eat up a lot of yards. And Orton is going to spread the ball around.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by BossChief

Bowe is open a lot when Cassel isn't looking his way.

The playoff game was a perfect example of that. Everybody that was there knows Bowe was wide open for 2 touchdowns.

That shit happens all the time.

I think if we had a quarterback that could spread the ball around, Bowe would be getting wide open looks all the time and we would have a guy that can get him the ball in those situations without hesitation.

22 is a stretch, but I could see him catching 19 or 20 TDs with a legit quarterback and the weapons we have.

The most talented WR in NFL history with arguably the most prolific QB in NFL history only managed 23.

Dwayne Bowe is no Randy Moss. Dwayne Bowe is no Calvin Johnson - he doesn't have his speed, size or hands (in fact, I think CJ is even stronger than Bowe).

C'mon - I know you're trying to extrapolate that 15 TD season into something more than it was, but that was his apex. Bowe simply isn't as 'open' as often as you think he is. He isn't one of the 10 greatest WRs in NFL history.

I ask again - what does he actually do that makes you think he's capable of putting himself alongside Calvin Johnson and Larry Fitzgerald, let alone Randy Moss and Jerry Rice. He simply does not have the physical skills that those guys have/had.

[jd1020]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

I ask again - what does he actually do that makes you think he's capable of putting himself alongside Calvin Johnson and Larry Fitzgerald, let alone Randy Moss and Jerry Rice. He simply does not have the physical skills that those guys have/had.

On gameday he puts on a Chiefs uniform.... for now.

[O.city]

I agree about the playoff thing.

I don't think Bowe is at that level. I don't think he's maxed out yet. We just don't know for sure yet what he would be as the guy has put up really good number with shit at qb.

I think he could be a top 5 or 6 wr for the next 5 years. I think you have a better chance to win a SB by having 3 or 4 guys that are really good than having 1 superstar and 2 or 3 JAGs. I think a group of Bowe, Baldwin, Breaston and one more really solid wr is more than enough weapons at wr.

I'd sign the guy.

[007]

Originally Posted by Laz

i'm a fan of whatever will make the team better.

So you are a fan of getting a new owner and cleaning out the front office right?