Worried: Someone tell me why we won't get murdered by Atlanta.

[New World Order]

Originally Posted by BlackBob

Brady won in 2005 and he wasn't a first rounder. It's all relative man. If I go back in history, I'm sure there are other positions that these teams have in common that were first round picks. How many Superbowl winners had a first round CB? How many Superbowl winners had a first round receiver? How many had a first round pass rusher? See what I mean?

Also, how do you reasonably factor in the guys who have won more than one Superbowl?


If you are going to do this the right way, you need to use both the winning and losing Superbowl Quarterbacks. Or, even the top four from the championship games each year. What some are trying to prove is that you need to have a first round QB to be a good teaam right? I mean the losing superbowl teams are still good teams right? If you are going by that theory, it's about making the championship game.

Winning the Superbowl is the goal and I understand that. However, there have only been 46 Superbowls and there have been hundreds - maybe thousands of quarterbacks that played in the NFL. When you look at those first round QBs on the list, most of them won more than one Superbowl or Championship before Superbowls existed. Most of those guys are Hall of Famers.

The point is that we need to research this much further before we can definativley say that a first round QB is the key to success.

That was the 2004 season, not 2005.


Face it, the NFL is a passing league, you need a good qb to contend.

[Black Bob]

Originally Posted by New World Order

That was the 2004 season, not 2005.


Face it, the NFL is a passing league, you need a good qb to contend.

I agree for the most part but, a first round QB doesn't always make a "good" QB.

[NJChiefsFan]

Originally Posted by BlackBob

I agree for the most part but, a first round QB doesn't always make a "good" QB.

But youdo need one. If u don't have a qb who can win a playoff gm you don't have much of a chance. People reference SF, well there qb had to win them that saints gm. Sorry but natty isn't doing that. Plus if smith steps up in the giants gm they probably avoid the fumble in OT. Point is we need a real qb to get where we eventually want to go in this league. Hoping a marginal qb will take us there is as big a risk as getting a new one, and has/will waste as much time.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by BlackBob

I agree for the most part but, a first round QB doesn't always make a "good" QB.

Football is a game of percentages.

No, first round QBs aren't automatically good.

But your chances of finding a GOOD QB outside of the 1st round are about equal to your chances of being struck by lightning.

[Black Bob]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Football is a game of percentages.

No, first round QBs aren't automatically good.

But your chances of finding a GOOD QB outside of the 1st round are about equal to your chances of being struck by lightning.

But what defines a good QB? Instead of trying to find a guy that will throw for 3 million yards, we need to fine the formula for what it takes to win. If we do that, we are onto something. There have been plenty of QBs who were Capable of winning Superbowls that didn't for various reasons.

[suds79]

Originally Posted by BlackBob

There have been plenty of QBs who were Capable of winning Superbowls that didn't for various reasons.

You're right. Getting that franchise guy doesn't give you a SB. It makes your team eligible. From there it depends on the quality of the rest of the team, HC, etc.

But without one? No shot.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by BlackBob

But what defines a good QB?

This is the argument of defeat - semantics.

You should just give up now.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by BlackBob

But what defines a good QB? Instead of trying to find a guy that will throw for 3 million yards, we need to fine the formula for what it takes to win. If we do that, we are onto something. There have been plenty of QBs who were Capable of winning Superbowls that didn't for various reasons.

A QB who has ability to scan the entire field, go through his progressions, and find a receiver even if he isn't the primary read. Cassel doesn't do that. He locks onto his primary guy then looks to his safety net.

A QB with the pocket presence to smell pressure and know where to slide in the pocket. Tom Brady is masterful at this. When he sense pressure, he doesn't scramble. He slides to a new spot. Cassel looked horrible behind the same offensive line that Brady and Orton got tremendous protection behind.

A QB with accuracy and touch. Eli Manning throws with precision, as with the Manningham catch. Aaron Rodgers, Brees, etc... are so precise the ball is put on exactly the right shoulder based on the WR's position. Cassel almost ALWAYS throws the ball to a receiver that is open by at least 5 yards.

A QB with anticipation to throw the ball before the receiver flies open.

A QB who is enough of a deep threat. Despite teams cheating up and putting 8 in a box, Cassel has one of the worst deep pass % completion in the league.

A QB who can read the defense and react to the blitz. Defenses constantly had more blitzers than blockers, and Cassel never picked it up. And Cassel NEVER finds a hot route.

A QB who can lead a team from behind. It's been 3 years now. Cassel has allowed blowouts to happen because instead of shooting out with the other team, he wastes the first 4 possessions when the other team gets an early lead. And in 3 years, how many 2 minute comebacks has he engineered?

Sorry, but we shouldn't congratulate a QB who can thrash bad defenses and relies on a "is my primary receiver wide open, or can I check down." My standard has always been, could a very average QB do the same things as Cassel. And I'd say "yes, and probably much better."

[Black Bob]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

A QB who has ability to scan the entire field, go through his progressions, and find a receiver even if he isn't the primary read. Cassel doesn't do that. He locks onto his primary guy then looks to his safety net.

A QB with the pocket presence to smell pressure and know where to slide in the pocket. Tom Brady is masterful at this. When he sense pressure, he doesn't scramble. He slides to a new spot. Cassel looked horrible behind the same offensive line that Brady and Orton got tremendous protection behind.

A QB with accuracy and touch. Eli Manning throws with precision, as with the Manningham catch. Aaron Rodgers, Brees, etc... are so precise the ball is put on exactly the right shoulder based on the WR's position. Cassel almost ALWAYS throws the ball to a receiver that is open by at least 5 yards.

A QB with anticipation to throw the ball before the receiver flies open.

A QB who is enough of a deep threat. Despite teams cheating up and putting 8 in a box, Cassel has one of the worst deep pass % completion in the league.

A QB who can read the defense and react to the blitz. Defenses constantly had more blitzers than blockers, and Cassel never picked it up. And Cassel NEVER finds a hot route.

A QB who can lead a team from behind. It's been 3 years now. Cassel has allowed blowouts to happen because instead of shooting out with the other team, he wastes the first 4 possessions when the other team gets an early lead. And in 3 years, how many 2 minute comebacks has he engineered?

Sorry, but we shouldn't congratulate a QB who can thrash bad defenses and relies on a "is my primary receiver wide open, or can I check down." My standard has always been, could a very average QB do the same things as Cassel. And I'd say "yes, and probably much better."

That is going to be hard to find. It's tough to find a QB with all of that. There are probably less than 20 who have all that in the history of the entire game. Leading a team from behind is what I am looking for. It's what Brady had and Russell Wilson had coming out. It's the most important thing imo. If a guy can't do that, then I would pass.

[Falconidae]

Originally Posted by BlackBob

That is going to be hard to find. It's tough to find a QB with all of that. There are probably less than 20 who have all that in the history of the entire game. Leading a team from behind is what I am looking for. It's what Brady had and Russell Wilson had coming out. It's the most important thing imo. If a guy can't do that, then I would pass.

You the black bob that disappeared from the falcons messageboard after predicting a Chiefs win based on superior depth?

[BossChief]

Originally Posted by New World Order

That was the 2004 season, not 2005.


Face it, the NFL is a passing league, you need a good qb to contend.

Alex Smith took the 49ers to a hair away from the superbowl.

Joe Flacco took the Ravens to a hair away from the superbowl.

The conversation should be "Can Matt Cassel be as good as Alex Smith 2011, or Joe Flacco 2011?"

If the answer is yes, we will have a big year that should be fun to watch.

[New World Order]

Originally Posted by BossChief

Alex Smith took the 49ers to a hair away from the superbowl.

Joe Flacco took the Ravens to a hair away from the superbowl.

The conversation should be "Can Matt Cassel be as good as Alex Smith 2011, or Joe Flacco 2011?"

If the answer is yes, we will have a big year that should be fun to watch.

The problem is Cassel has shown limited ability in sitting back in the pocket and making throws. I don't think Joe Flacco is the greatest qb of all time but we have seen him sit in shotgun and deliver the football, for example he ran the 2 minute drill and came from behind to beat Pittsburgh, one of the best defenses in the NFL. Cassel's throws as we all know come from the running game/PA. Our defense has not shown on a consistent basis that they are good enough to carry an average QB, we don't have a Ravens D.

[NJChiefsFan]

Originally Posted by BossChief

Alex Smith took the 49ers to a hair away from the superbowl.

Joe Flacco took the Ravens to a hair away from the superbowl.

The conversation should be "Can Matt Cassel be as good as Alex Smith 2011, or Joe Flacco 2011?"

If the answer is yes, we will have a big year that should be fun to watch.

Can Cassel play a game like Smith played against NO in the playoffs? No.

[Black Bob]

Originally Posted by BossChief

Alex Smith took the 49ers to a hair away from the superbowl.

Joe Flacco took the Ravens to a hair away from the superbowl.

The conversation should be "Can Matt Cassel be as good as Alex Smith 2011, or Joe Flacco 2011?"

If the answer is yes, we will have a big year that should be fun to watch.

Yep, Alex Smith gave me alot of hope last year. Before that I really felt like being a leader and taking a game on your shoulders couldn't be taught. I mean making the play when it had to be made. I think this is Cassel's biggest weakness. I think it was Alex Smith's to. You almost absolutely have to be able to do that to win a superbowl. The only other way is to flat out blow people out and never trail like Green Bay did when they won it a couple of years ago.