Alex Smith vs. Rich Gannon

[FringeNC]

My view is that Andy Reid has no use for "game manager" QBs. What skills did Rich Gannon have that Alex Smith does not? Rich Gannon passed for about 4500 yards one year a Reid-like offense. Why can't Alex Smith do the same? Not saying he will, but help me understand why it's not going to happen.

[keg in kc]

Originally Posted by Chiefshrink

Damn right we should but it just goes to show you how our fan expectations and standards(collectively speaking) for our QB have lowered.

We need to raise the bar. For this to be a successful trade, Alex Smith's name needs to be spoken in the same breath as the top QBs in the league. Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Peyton Manning.

I list the last two specifically because they went to new cities and posted huge numbers immediately.

Brees in 2006: 4418 yards, 64.3%, 26 TD, 11 INT. They win 10 games. Also win a postseason game. And he's kept on playing like that for 6 more years. That's what we need from Alex Smith, now and later.

Manning last year: 4659 yards, 68.6%, 38 TD, 11 INT. They win 13 games. Lose in double OT to the eventual superbowl champion.

None of this "I don't care as long as the team wins" rationalizing bullshit. The guy needs to be directly responsible for winning games, not just along for the ride. Andy Reid is an offensive/QB genious. Everybody says it. Alex Smith is his chosen guy. He's hard working, he's accurate, he's smart, we've heard it all, all summer long. Now it's time to see it on the field. He needs to be our 4500 yard, 30 TD guy for the next 5 years. That's what you give up two seconds for. Rich Gannon 2002, to get back to the header. Trent Green 2004. Drew Brees 2006. That's the kind of quarterback Alex Smith needs to be. If he farts along for 3500 yards and 20 TDs, then it's a waste of time, regardless of the what the record ends up being (and let's face it, if he's posting numbers like that, the record probably ain't gonna be all that good anyway...)

[Jakemall]

Originally Posted by keg in kc

We need to raise the bar. For this to be a successful trade, Alex Smith's name needs to be spoken in the same breath as the top QBs in the league. Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Peyton Manning.

I list the last two specifically because they went to new cities and posted huge numbers immediately.

Brees in 2006: 4418 yards, 64.3%, 26 TD, 11 INT. They win 10 games. Also win a postseason game. And he's kept on playing like that for 6 more years. That's what we need from Alex Smith, now and later.

Manning last year: 4659 yards, 68.6%, 38 TD, 11 INT. They win 13 games. Lose in double OT to the eventual superbowl champion.

None of this "I don't care as long as the team wins" rationalizing bullshit. The guy needs to be directly responsible for winning games, not just along for the ride. Andy Reid is an offensive/QB genious. Everybody says it. Alex Smith is his chosen guy. He's hard working, he's accurate, he's smart, we've heard it all, all summer long. Now it's time to see it on the field. He needs to be our 4500 yard, 30 TD guy for the next 5 years. That's what you give up two seconds for. Rich Gannon 2002, to get back to the header. Trent Green 2004. Drew Brees 2006. That's the kind of quarterback Alex Smith needs to be. If he farts along for 3500 yards and 20 TDs, then it's a waste of time, regardless of the what the record ends up being (and let's face it, if he's posting numbers like that, the record probably ain't gonna be all that good anyway...)

So you're saying Alex needs to be on par with Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Peyton Manning. Otherwise, trading for 2 2nds was a failed trade?

Do you really think you could get any one of those players for 2 2nds? Do you think you could get any of them for 2 1sts? Do you remember how many picks the Giants gave up to get Eli just because he had the same bloodline as Peyton?

[KCSLC2008]

Originally Posted by Saccopoo

He passed for 3,144 in 2011.

He was on pace for 2,800 approximately in 2012.

Reid's offense is more pass oriented and he's got better weapons in Bowe, Charles and McCluster - guys who should thrive in Reid's offense in terms of YAC. As well, Reid's Eagle teams were constantly in the top 10 in passing yards nearly every single year he was coach.

I think 3,600 to 4,000 isn't out of the realm of possibility.

In addition, when you factor in the use of Bowe and the FB/TE for Reid's offense, I think you'll see a lot of red zone pass TD's over designed running plays.

24 to 28 TD's from Smith's arm should be expected.

I agree, but your numbers are skewed. Skewed, I mean, if you're talking about pace.

Smith had 1,659 yards through 8 games. His ninth game, he played two drives before the concussion. His tenth game, he threw one pass. So I see his "pace" as 3,318. Not great, but better than 2,800.

I could skew the numbers and say that the 72 yard, one touchdown two-drive game was in one quarter and turn that into a 288 yard, 4 TD game but I won't. I could mention all the plays (over 25) that Kaepernick took from him before the concussion. That would have increased the 1,659 number to over 1,700 in 8 games. Again, not great, but better.

So, I think considering he was around 3,300 in a run-first offense, he should have more than that in Reid's pass first offense - though his YPA, completion percentage, and INT numbers should digress as the total yards and TDs increase.

[cdcox]

Originally Posted by Jakemall

So you're saying Alex needs to be on par with Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Peyton Manning. Otherwise, trading for 2 2nds was a failed trade?

Do you really think you could get any one of those players for 2 2nds? Do you think you could get any of them for 2 1sts? Do you remember how many picks the Giants gave up to get Eli just because he had the same bloodline as Peyton?

Yes. We are either on the path to winning multiple Super Bowls or we are in the process of setting fire to two second round picks and are YET further behind in our quest for dominance of the NFL.

[KCSLC2008]

Originally Posted by Coogs

I'm going to go back to the Steelers game again. It looked as if a few lessons were learned against the 49ers, and our blocking was better, receiving personal was better for our system... but didn't have McCluster, and Charles was on the sideline.

Yet we still threw it 24 times, completed 17 of them for 71%. 158 yards, 1 TD, and 0 INT's.

There was nothing there that indicated to me that we couldn't have come out the 2nd half and duplicated those numbers.

I'm not buying that Smith has a ceiling on how many attempts he can throw in a game, and his performance will begin to suffer. Not before the games start for real next week anyway.

I referenced this earlier this off-season. The Chiefs/Bronco's Monday Night game where Montana threw the TD to win it at the gun.

The game against the Steelers last week would have been very similar to the game plan that night in Denver with Montana had it continued for a full game instead of just the first half.

Some people act like Smith can throw adequately for throws 1-29 and on passes 30+ he suddenly started throwing INTs and incompletions. Reality was that since he was in run-first offenses, he'd often only throw 30+ times in games where he was playing catchup. The catchup parts were in garbage time where the defense was in prevent, but it didn't overcome the bad start - getting few shots make it harder to get it done.

Reid will game-plan for a lot of throws and these throws will be in the same difficulty level as Smith has done well in. Defenses know this, so there's some problems, but Smith will likely have some success and be able to throw a lot more than he did in Harbaugh's run-first offense (which he ran more than he passed even with Andrew Freakin' Luck).

[keg in kc]

Originally Posted by Jakemall

So you're saying Alex needs to be on par with Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Peyton Manning. Otherwise, trading for 2 2nds was a failed trade?

I'm not saying it would be a failed trade if he's less than that, only a pointless one. Why bother if he can't be one of the best?

Andy Reid knows offense. Andy Reid knows quarterbacks. Alex Smith is his guy. There's nothing wrong with having high expectations. I know people are accustomed to failure. I know we're used to being kicked while we're down, and then getting pissed on. I know we're used to insane levels of rationalization, trying to justify the value of having Damon Huards and Tyler Thigpens and Matt Cassels and Brady Quinns and Tyler Palkos behind center. I know we're used to expecting little and getting less. I know it's scary to hope for more, because it sucks so much when we're let down.

Time for that to change.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Stop-gap.

Andy Reid will get a mixed plate to the hall of fame before Axl.

[quittripping]

Originally Posted by Sweet Daddy Hate

Stop-gap.

Andy Reid will get a mixed plate to the hall of fame before Axl.

NEXT 10 YEARS

CRY and WHINE more

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Originally Posted by quittripping

NEXT 10 YEARS

Lay off the glue, son.

[quittripping]

Originally Posted by Sweet Daddy Hate

Lay off the glue, son.

Smoke more crack, maybe you will whine less

[9er guy]

Originally Posted by quittripping

Smoke more crack, maybe you will whine less

[Sandy Vagina]

Originally Posted by KCSLC2008

Some people act like Smith can throw adequately for throws 1-29 and on passes 30+ he suddenly started throwing INTs and incompletions. Reality was that since he was in run-first offenses, he'd often only throw 30+ times in games where he was playing catchup. The catchup parts were in garbage time where the defense was in prevent, but it didn't overcome the bad start - getting few shots make it harder to get it done.

Reid will game-plan for a lot of throws and these throws will be in the same difficulty level as Smith has done well in. Defenses know this, so there's some problems, but Smith will likely have some success and be able to throw a lot more than he did in Harbaugh's run-first offense (which he ran more than he passed even with Andrew Freakin' Luck).

precisely!

This gets commonly overlooked by those with an agenda. Add to it, SF had... for a long time... an offense that was anything but creative in deep play design. They focused on playing THEIR WAY... conservative offense and field position. So when things went wrong, they didn't have a grand plan B to catch back up. They also lacked... aside from VD.. a big play receiver that could get them large chunks quickly. Add to that, we built this OL years ago for power running. This OL wasn't remotely ideal for protecting 7 step drops that allowed for deep routes.

[Alex Smiff]

So, Alex Smith's lack of deep ball passing was due to the 9ers offense and not his own limitations? I've heard it all here.

Smith fanboys make me sick.

Just hope the Chiefs D is spectacular this year. If not, and Smith will have to play catch up. Good luck!

[Mav]

Originally Posted by Alex Smiff

So, Alex Smith's lack of deep ball passing was due to the 9ers offense and not his own limitations? I've heard it all here.

Smith fanboys make me sick.

Just hope the Chiefs D is spectacular this year. If not, and Smith will have to play catch up. Good luck!

Then why even come here? Alex haters have no reason to be here.

You are just a bunch of useless trolls.

[Alex Smiff]

Originally Posted by Mavericks Ace

Then why even come here? Alex haters have no reason to be here.

You are just a bunch of useless trolls.

It's not that serious. Settle down, sport.