Alex Smith vs. Rich Gannon

[keg in kc]

Originally Posted by Chiefshrink

Damn right we should but it just goes to show you how our fan expectations and standards(collectively speaking) for our QB have lowered.

We need to raise the bar. For this to be a successful trade, Alex Smith's name needs to be spoken in the same breath as the top QBs in the league. Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Peyton Manning.

I list the last two specifically because they went to new cities and posted huge numbers immediately.

Brees in 2006: 4418 yards, 64.3%, 26 TD, 11 INT. They win 10 games. Also win a postseason game. And he's kept on playing like that for 6 more years. That's what we need from Alex Smith, now and later.

Manning last year: 4659 yards, 68.6%, 38 TD, 11 INT. They win 13 games. Lose in double OT to the eventual superbowl champion.

None of this "I don't care as long as the team wins" rationalizing bullshit. The guy needs to be directly responsible for winning games, not just along for the ride. Andy Reid is an offensive/QB genious. Everybody says it. Alex Smith is his chosen guy. He's hard working, he's accurate, he's smart, we've heard it all, all summer long. Now it's time to see it on the field. He needs to be our 4500 yard, 30 TD guy for the next 5 years. That's what you give up two seconds for. Rich Gannon 2002, to get back to the header. Trent Green 2004. Drew Brees 2006. That's the kind of quarterback Alex Smith needs to be. If he farts along for 3500 yards and 20 TDs, then it's a waste of time, regardless of the what the record ends up being (and let's face it, if he's posting numbers like that, the record probably ain't gonna be all that good anyway...)

[Jakemall]

Originally Posted by keg in kc

We need to raise the bar. For this to be a successful trade, Alex Smith's name needs to be spoken in the same breath as the top QBs in the league. Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Peyton Manning.

I list the last two specifically because they went to new cities and posted huge numbers immediately.

Brees in 2006: 4418 yards, 64.3%, 26 TD, 11 INT. They win 10 games. Also win a postseason game. And he's kept on playing like that for 6 more years. That's what we need from Alex Smith, now and later.

Manning last year: 4659 yards, 68.6%, 38 TD, 11 INT. They win 13 games. Lose in double OT to the eventual superbowl champion.

None of this "I don't care as long as the team wins" rationalizing bullshit. The guy needs to be directly responsible for winning games, not just along for the ride. Andy Reid is an offensive/QB genious. Everybody says it. Alex Smith is his chosen guy. He's hard working, he's accurate, he's smart, we've heard it all, all summer long. Now it's time to see it on the field. He needs to be our 4500 yard, 30 TD guy for the next 5 years. That's what you give up two seconds for. Rich Gannon 2002, to get back to the header. Trent Green 2004. Drew Brees 2006. That's the kind of quarterback Alex Smith needs to be. If he farts along for 3500 yards and 20 TDs, then it's a waste of time, regardless of the what the record ends up being (and let's face it, if he's posting numbers like that, the record probably ain't gonna be all that good anyway...)

So you're saying Alex needs to be on par with Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Peyton Manning. Otherwise, trading for 2 2nds was a failed trade?

Do you really think you could get any one of those players for 2 2nds? Do you think you could get any of them for 2 1sts? Do you remember how many picks the Giants gave up to get Eli just because he had the same bloodline as Peyton?

[cdcox]

Originally Posted by Jakemall

So you're saying Alex needs to be on par with Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Peyton Manning. Otherwise, trading for 2 2nds was a failed trade?

Do you really think you could get any one of those players for 2 2nds? Do you think you could get any of them for 2 1sts? Do you remember how many picks the Giants gave up to get Eli just because he had the same bloodline as Peyton?

Yes. We are either on the path to winning multiple Super Bowls or we are in the process of setting fire to two second round picks and are YET further behind in our quest for dominance of the NFL.

[keg in kc]

Originally Posted by Jakemall

So you're saying Alex needs to be on par with Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Peyton Manning. Otherwise, trading for 2 2nds was a failed trade?

I'm not saying it would be a failed trade if he's less than that, only a pointless one. Why bother if he can't be one of the best?

Andy Reid knows offense. Andy Reid knows quarterbacks. Alex Smith is his guy. There's nothing wrong with having high expectations. I know people are accustomed to failure. I know we're used to being kicked while we're down, and then getting pissed on. I know we're used to insane levels of rationalization, trying to justify the value of having Damon Huards and Tyler Thigpens and Matt Cassels and Brady Quinns and Tyler Palkos behind center. I know we're used to expecting little and getting less. I know it's scary to hope for more, because it sucks so much when we're let down.

Time for that to change.

[Jakemall]

Originally Posted by keg in kc

I'm not saying it would be a failed trade if he's less than that, only a pointless one. Why bother if he can't be one of the best?

Andy Reid knows offense. Andy Reid knows quarterbacks. Alex Smith is his guy. There's nothing wrong with having high expectations. I know people are accustomed to failure. I know we're used to being kicked while we're down, and then getting pissed on. I know we're used to insane levels of rationalization, trying to justify the value of having Damon Huards and Tyler Thigpens and Matt Cassels and Brady Quinns and Tyler Palkos behind center. I know we're used to expecting little and getting less. I know it's scary to hope for more, because it sucks so much when we're let down.

Time for that to change.

I get what you're saying. What I'm suggesting is that you're setting the bar too high for the price you paid. You're not going to get the next Peyton Manning for 2 2nds. If that's the kind of change you're looking for, may I suggest playing the lottery?

I get you're all tired of mediocrity, but I think you're setting yourself up for disappointment. I think Alex is a very good QB, but Peyton Manning is going to be a HOF player.

Question: If a player makes a team better, but isn't one of the best in the NFL, is a trade a failure? I don't think so...not as long as he brings more to the table than the 2 2nd rounders would have.

[keg in kc]

Originally Posted by Jakemall

I get what you're saying. What I'm suggesting is that you're setting the bar too high for the price you paid. You're not going to get the next Peyton Manning for 2 2nds. If that's the kind of change you're looking for, may I suggest playing the lottery?

I get you're all tired of mediocrity, but I think you're setting yourself up for disappointment. I think Alex is a very good QB, but Peyton Manning is going to be a HOF player.

Question: If a player makes a team better, but isn't one of the best in the NFL, is a trade a failure? I don't think so...not as long as he brings more to the table than the 2 2nd rounders would have.

I'm setting the bar as high as it *should* be set. When your coaching staff calls the quarterback you traded for, the one the new head coach has been in love with for years, the best in the NFL, when the guy is clearly and obviously being set up as the face of the franchise for the next 5 years, it is not out of proportion to expect him to be one of the top QBs in the league.

I am not saying he has to be Peyton Manning, specifically. I am also not saying he has to be Drew Brees, specifically. I simply listed those two as players who were able to excel immediately with new teams. Which I believe we should expect Alex Smith to do, with the offensive players in place around him.

What I am saying is that for this team to prosper long term, his name needs to be mentioned in the company of players like Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, Peyton Manning, Joe Flacco, Matt Ryan, Tom Brady, Ben Roethlisberger and Eli Manning. He needs to become a part of that group for this trade to be worth it, in my opinion. Top 5-10 at his position. That's not asking too much. That's basically just asking him to be a 2013 version of Trent Green.

[Jakemall]

Originally Posted by keg in kc

I'm setting the bar as high as it *should* be set. When your coaching staff calls the quarterback you traded for, the one the new head coach has been in love with for years, the best in the NFL, when the guy is clearly and obviously being set up as the face of the franchise for the next 5 years, it is not out of proportion to expect him to be one of the top QBs in the league.

I am not saying he has to be Peyton Manning, specifically. I am also not saying he has to be Drew Brees, specifically. I simply listed those two as players who were able to excel immediately with new teams. Which I believe we should expect Alex Smith to do, with the offensive players in place around him.

What I am saying is that for this team to prosper long term, his name needs to be mentioned in the company of players like Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, Peyton Manning, Joe Flacco, Matt Ryan, Tom Brady, Ben Roethlisberger and Eli Manning. He needs to become a part of that group for this trade to be worth it, in my opinion. Top 5-10 at his position. That's not asking too much. That's basically just asking him to be a 2013 version of Trent Green.

You are aware that Denver was a play-off team the year before Manning got there with Tebow, right? It kinda diminishes his accomplishments there. Also, aside for a play-off appearance when he first arrived, Brees' 2nd and 3rd years with the Saints did not result in a winning season let alone a play-off appearance.

[Dylan]

Originally Posted by Jakemall

Do you remember how many picks the Giants gave up to get Eli just because he had the same bloodline as Peyton?

The fact that it has to be pointed out to you proves how far off you are on this.

My response to your foolishness is quoted below.

Lastly - Thank you for adding evidence to back me up.

Excerpt: Ernie Accorsi’s 2002 scouting report on Eli, more than a decade later, is still required reading for Giants fans, just because it is as prescient an analysis as any sports executive has ever made.

It ends this way:

“Summary: I think he’s the complete package. He’s not going to be a fast runner, but a little like Joe Montana, he has enough athletic ability to get out of trouble. Remember how Archie (Manning) ran? In that department, Eli doesn't have the best genes, although I never timed mom Olivia in the 40. But he has a feel for the pocket. Feels the rush.

“Throws the ball, takes the hit, gets right back up… Has courage and poise. In my opinion, most of all, he has that quality you can’t define. Call it magic. As (former Baltimore Colts defensive back) Bobby Boyd told me once about Unitas, “Two things set him apart: his left testicle and his right testicle.

“Peyton had much better talent around him at Tennessee. But I honestly give this guy a chance to be better than his brother. Eli doesn’t get much help from the coaching staff. If he comes out early, we should move up to take him. These guys are rare, you know.

"THIS KID IS A WINNER. LET’S DO WHATEVER WE CAN TO GET HIM. IT WILL BE THE DIFINING MOMENT OF THE FRANCHISE."

Mike Lupica, New York Daily News
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/fo...icle-1.1442793

Ernie Accorsi's scouting report:
http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2012/02...Big+Picture%29

[Mav]

Dylan LOL. I cant stop laughing

“Two things set him apart: his left testicle and his right testicle.

[Dylan]

Originally Posted by Mavericks Ace

Dylan LOL. I cant stop laughing

“Two things set him apart: his left testicle and his right testicle.

When it comes to Eli Manning, you better be accurate.

“Everybody who ever worked with me knows I always referenced (Johnny) Unitas when it came to quarterbacks,” Accorsi said. “In the end, you evaluate quarterbacks on whether or not they can take their team down the field and into the end zone when there’s a championship on the line.”

So there was Accorsi with his family at University of Phoenix Stadium four years ago, having retired the year before, but with so many of his Giants players in that Super Bowl against the Patriots, not just Eli. Sean Payton, who had been an offensive coordinator with the Giants, was sitting in the same general area. During a timeout before the Giants’ last drive, Payton went over to Accorsi and said, “You know Ernie, somebody told me once that you measure your quarterback by whether or not he takes them down the field in a moment like this.”

Here’s a little known tidbit from that draft: The Browns, who were picking seventh, wanted to swap spots with the Giants. Accorsi said no, because he was afraid if he traded down, the Browns then would have made the deal with San Diego for Manning. Cleveland then gave up a second-round pick to move up one spot so it could draft tight end Kellen Winslow Jr. The Browns would have had to give up at least a second-round pick to the Giants to move up to No. 4.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/fo...icle-1.1004253

[Sandy Vagina]

Originally Posted by Dylan

Mike Lupica, New York Daily News
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/fo...icle-1.1442793

Ernie Accorsi's scouting report:
http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2012/02...Big+Picture%29

I don't even give a shit about the NFCGG any longer, but Eli was remarkably lucky to have not thrown TWO easy interceptions in that game that would have buried his team. Both throws were right to DBs that essentially collided and screwed up the picks all by themselves. Eli also had far better weaponry in that game, and couldn't manage to do jack shit in the 2nd half. Talk about a QB carried to the SB thanks to ferocious defense, luck, and Kyle Williams turning the ball over multiple times... and on the short field. Eli has his moments of magic in his career, to be sure... but if talking about that NFCCG? Hahahaha... that mutha had huge tidal waves of good fortune carrying his ass.

[9er guy]

Originally Posted by Mac-NinersChiefs

TWO easy interceptions in that game that would have buried his team. Both throws were right to DBs that essentially collided and screwed up the picks all by themselves.

UGH........don't remind me

[Dylan]

Originally Posted by Mac-NinersChiefs

I don't even give a shit about the NFCGG any longer, but Eli was remarkably lucky to have not thrown TWO easy interceptions in that game that would have buried his team. Both throws were right to DBs that essentially collided and screwed up the picks all by themselves. Eli also had far better weaponry in that game, and couldn't manage to do jack shit in the 2nd half. Talk about a QB carried to the SB thanks to ferocious defense, luck, and Kyle Williams turning the ball over multiple times... and on the short field. Eli has his moments of magic in his career, to be sure... but if talking about that NFCCG? Hahahaha... that mutha had huge tidal waves of good fortune carrying his ass.

*Mac-NinersChiefs:

Perhaps someday you will make a coherent, articulate, and well-reasoned post in response to a New York Daily News story. Sadly, that day is not today.

Here is what you fail to realize:

NY Giants, QB Eli Manning - 2 Super Bowl appearances, 2 Super Bowl wins!
49ers, QB Colin Kaepernick - 1 Super Bowl appearance, 0 Super Bowl wins!


*I fully do not understand the reluctance to hitch your wagon to San Francisco 49ers or Kansas City Chiefs.

[Sandy Vagina]

Originally Posted by Dylan

*Mac-NinersChiefs:

*I fully do not understand the reluctance to hitch your wagon to the San Francisco 49ers or Kansas City Chiefs.

What? There is no reluctance.

My wagon is firmly and unequivocally hitched to the San Francisco 49ers.

However, there is nothing wrong with taking a close interest and appreciation for what the Chiefs are building. There isn't an aspect of that team that I dislike... and I will enjoy watching KC when my 49ers are not playing in the same time-slot... which is 12-13 games.

[Dylan]

Originally Posted by Mac-NinersChiefs

What? There is no reluctance.

My wagon is firmly and unequivocally hitched to the San Francisco 49ers.

However, there is nothing wrong with taking a close interest and appreciation for what the Chiefs are building. There isn't an aspect of that team that I dislike... and I will enjoy watching KC when my 49ers are not playing in the same time-slot... which is 12-13 games.

*Mac-NinersChiefs:

I am truly at a loss on how to deal with your insecurity.

With that said, I will move on.