Wisniewski in the Seminary

[NaptownChief]

Raiders | Wisniewski Note - posted at KFFL ([url]http://nfl.kffl.com[/url])
20:41 PT: The Associated Press reports the Oakland Raiders opened training camp on Friday missing OL Steve Wisniewski. He was at a "seminary function" in Southern California. Coach Jon Gruden, who said he has not heard that Wisniewski doesn't plan on playing this season, expected to talk to him in the next few days.


Further proof of the old saying "Religion, the last refuge of a scoundrel."

[Luzap]

JL80... What?

How did we go from talking about contemporary attitudes and social trends in the US, to the history of world warfare?

There is no doubt (I didn't think) in anyone's mind that the Christain ethic and foundation that this country's morals and laws were built on is being eroded. The public cry today to limit religion in publicly sponsored domains would have been considered insane as little as thirty years ago.

For your paradigm to be the opposite of this is a huge surprise to me.

Luz
not sure what else to say...

[NaptownChief]

Luz,

It appears that we were debating different parts of my post...I was debating religious peoples typical disrespect for those who don't share their views...And I believe you were speaking about the point of which side of the religious debate is harder to voice in public...

The reality of the point you are discussing is that it probably is very similar for both sides...My guess is that there is plenty of people out there on both sides of that debate. I think in general people are disrespectful to anybody who doesn't share their opinions, whether it be religion, politics or whatever....It just seems that the religious folks can tend to be more radical and arrogant in their disrespect, but that is just my opinion...

[Luzap]

jl80,

I take issue when you say 'religious peoples typical disrespect for others that don't share their views'.

[B]This is absurd[/B]

All spectrums of sociological groupings have their extremists and lunatic fringe. Manytimes in history, these extremists have actually ended up in power.

To claim, however, that these peoples represent their grouping is naive in the extreem.

Luz
i thought better of you than that...

[Luzap]

jl80,

When most people make statements like that, they are not referring to intollerance. They are uncomfortable because someone has the nerve to say that they're wrong and what they're doing is wrong.

This isn't intollerance, this is taking a moral stance. It is not a judgement on you. Perhaps you should be more thick skinned and more secure in your beliefs?;)

Luz
i enjoy our conversations, but will not condone irresponsible labeling...

[NaptownChief]

Luz,

I don't think that is even close to being absurd...

Take KCJ for instance, I don't consider him a radical or an extremist. IMO he reflects the majority of the religious folk in that he believes his religious beliefs are the "accurate" beliefs and that the Catholics, the Jews, the Islamic etc.etc are in the wrong...That is a very common thought pattern within most religions...Considering most people within those religions have never taken the time to truly study all the other religions that they tend to poor mouth is very arrogant and disrespectful...I will give KCJ some credit cause he at least appears to have studied many of the religions that he puts down.

[KCJohnny]

Oh please!
Name a religion I have disparaged!
Here I am defending religion, as a disparager of religion???
And I wouldn't say that the Catholics are wrong, seeing I am one ;) .

Luzap is right. Our culture has gone from a solidly Judeo Christian morality-informed one to a radically secular state with little tolerance for religion in the public square.

You paint with WAY too broad a brush, jl.

KCJ
Religious scoundrel

[Luzap]

jl80,

And just exactly how is that being intollerant of others?

When I tell you that you are wrong about Christianity (which you are ~ it gives new meaning to the phrase 'dead wrong') that doesn't make me intollerant of you.

Please explain how this makes me intollerant of you - as this is the entire basis of your statement and argument.

Luz
i want to see this...

[Mi_chief_fan]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Luzap [/i]
[B]

When I tell you that you are wrong about Christianity (which you are ~ it gives new meaning to the phrase 'dead wrong') that doesn't make me intollerant of you.

[/B][/QUOTE]

Oh really? Prove it. (The part about being wrong). That's just the type of rhetoric that drives many people like myself (and i'm guessing jl80) away from organized religion.

Never thought i'd come to jl80's defense.........

[KCJohnny]

Jl, you probably meant no harm, and it seems that I am overreacting, but that phrase means one thing if it it rebukes a scoundrel and another thing if you mean it to disparage religion.
Let's cool it. OK?



[QUOTE]That's just the type of rhetoric that drives many people like myself (and i'm guessing jl80) away from organized religion. [/QUOTE]

Brother, that is not a good enough excuse. This thing is about God, you and eternity, and if a hypocrite stands between you and God, then he is closer to God than you are.

KCJ
Praying for his BB friends (seriously)

Actually,

The saying is, "Patriotism, the last refuge of the scoundrel."

Soliday

[keg in kc]

He said a hypocrite stood between he and organized religion.

He did not say anything about what may or may not stand between he and god.

Religion and belief are different subjects altogether. One does not have to find religion to find god. One does not even have to find god if they choose to go that route.

It's the "free will" thing, and Nap (and everyone else) has his own path to find, whatever that may be. If he's comfortable with where he is than be happy for him, don't chastize him simply because your own view is different.

I think blaming society's problems on a lack of religion is incorrect and short-sighted. Society's ills are a result of a lack of personal responsibility, the disintigration of the parent (not the "family", the parent) and the complete focus of America on one thing, and one thing alone: greed and acquisition of wealth.

[Mi_chief_fan]

KCJ,

For the record, nobody is standing between me and "god", it's a choice I make on my own free will. It's something that doesn't sit well with my wife and her family, but it's just something that i'm either not ready to commit to, or that i'm not convinced exists, and just don't want to waste my time with.

Of course, I could be wrong. I try to avoid religion and/or religious topics; but when I see a quote made out of sheer arrogance, I just had to respond. Nothing personal, Luzap.

[KCJohnny]

Kyle,
I agree, but according to the father of our republic, religion is the primary source of that responsible citizenship you laud. Reduced to a practical syllogism, yes, lack of religion = lack of morals = social decay.

KCJ
George Washington supporter

[FloridaChief]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by soliday [/i]
[B]Actually,

The saying is, "Patriotism, the last refuge of the scoundrel."

Soliday [/B][/QUOTE]

Soliday's right.

Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel.

--Samuel Johnson, 1775

[KCJohnny]

MCF:
I respect that.
If you ever want to ask a question or vent or just ask for a prayer, I'm here at [email][email protected][/email].

KCJ
KCStar BB Chaplain