If Berry is there and we pass - Page 4

BigCatDaddy · 02-13-2010, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RustShack

The people who give the "someone later could end up being better" are just flat our reeruned. Thats like saying we should think about drafting a 7th round prospect first because well he could end up being better. You draft players who have the talent and a better chance of being better. Sure Okung could end up being good in the right situation, but hes physically not worth the pick like someone like Berry is.

So are you going to answer the question? I tell what what I'll just keep it to the first 20 picks. Will someone in the top 20 drafted after Berry have a better NFL career? Don't give me the crock of shit that it matters how good the team is. Jared Allen and Tony Gonzalez both still shined on a sorry ass Chiefs team. A good player looks like a good player on any team.

RustShack · 02-13-2010, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigCatDaddy

So are you going to answer the question? I tell what what I'll just keep it to the first 20 picks. Will someone in the top 20 drafted after Berry have a better NFL career? Don't give me the crock of shit that it matters how good the team is. Jared Allen and Tony Gonzalez both still shined on a sorry ass Chiefs team. A good player looks like a good player on any team.

Yeah players drafted after Berry will be better. But if those same players went to a bad situation like Berry they would be worse.

BigCatDaddy · 02-13-2010, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RustShack

Yeah players drafted after Berry will be better. But if those same players went to a bad situation like Berry they would be worse.

You just don't get it do you? Good players are still good on bad teams. Calvin Johnson still puts up numbers on a shit team, Jared Allen still gets 15 sacks with the Chiefs. You are making excuses already for the kid and you are assuming the team he plays for will remain picking in the top 10. 4 years ago the Saints were picking #2, 2 years ago the Falcons and Dolphins picked in top 5 and made the playoffs.

**RealSNR** · 02-13-2010, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigCatDaddy

So are you going to answer the question? I tell what what I'll just keep it to the first 20 picks. Will someone in the top 20 drafted after Berry have a better NFL career? Don't give me the crock of shit that it matters how good the team is. Jared Allen and Tony Gonzalez both still shined on a sorry ass Chiefs team. A good player looks like a good player on any team.

I'll answer the question. The chance that Berry is better than 15 other fantastic athletes in a single draft class is extremely unlikely. The chance that one of those 15 other athletes is better than the 14 other athletes or Berry is extremely unlikely.

So given that information, the answer is yes. Berry is a better prospect and has a better chance of success than those other players. That's why he's so highly touted.

BigCatDaddy · 02-13-2010, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SNR

I'll answer the question. The chance that Berry is better than 15 other fantastic athletes in a single draft class is extremely unlikely. The chance that one of those 15 other athletes is better than the 14 other athletes or Berry is extremely unlikely.

So given that information, the answer is yes. Berry is a better prospect and has a better chance of success than those other players. That's why he's so highly touted.

In your opinion, but odds are you are wrong as you admit. If the Chiefs go with say another player like Graham who isn't "rated into the top 10" and he turns into Demarcus Ware then that's a brillant move that we should be open to.

RustShack · 02-13-2010, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigCatDaddy

In your opinion, but odds are you are wrong as you admit. If the Chiefs go with say another player like Graham who isn't "rated into the top 10" and he turns into Demarcus Ware then that's a brillant move that we should be open to.

Are you stupid? Ware was a talented prospect with upside, Graham isn't. Graham is like what Hali was coming out, what you see is what you get. Sure he won't be a flop like some other players, but he wont be great either.

Sam Hall · 02-13-2010, 05:12 PM

It won't change my view because of what we should have learned last year: The draft board of an NFL general manager is different than the draft board of the average NFL fan.

BigCatDaddy · 02-13-2010, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam Hall

It won't change my view because of what we should have learned last year: The draft board of an NFL general manager is different than the draft board of the average NFL fan.

And neither is really any better then other. Most years the 11-15 group is as good if not better then 1-5. I know it pisses off all the draft guru's that think there is significant difference between any of the top 20 guys in the draft and a guy they have ranked at 5 is twice the player a guy rated at #20 is, but that's just not the case as history shows us that.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=223331

Mecca · 02-13-2010, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam Hall

It won't change my view because of what we should have learned last year: The draft board of an NFL general manager is different than the draft board of the average NFL fan.

Is it good or bad to know that "average fan" could have outdrafted the Chiefs this past year?

**DaneMcCloud** · 02-13-2010, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam Hall

It won't change my view because of what we should have learned last year: The draft board of an NFL general manager is different than the draft board of the average NFL fan.

Wrong.

The draft board of Scott Pioli is different than any other NFL GM.

Saccopoo · 02-13-2010, 05:17 PM

...then they found something in his game that indicates that he'll have trouble transitioning to the next level. They guy doesn't have the best fundamentals (shoulder pad tackles virtually everytime), has a potential question mark about a lingering shoulder situation, and his numbers in his junior year took a nose dive - at least in comparison to his freshman and sophomore stats. (And yes, I understand that he played up this season rather than being a ball hawk, but his tackle numbers were the same, his sacks went to zero and his interceptions were cut substantially.) He doesn't possess ideal size, especially for the next level. He could be Ed Reed based on his athleticism and passion for the game. He could be Bob Sanders - passion for the game, but because of the size, he can't stay healthy and on the field. He could be just another guy that ends up at the nickle if he doesn't learn to wrap up or can't handle the size of modern NFL tight ends and the like.

He's a stud and has potential, but it's not like he's a slam dunk.

Besides, he's a safety. He won't be put on an island, and is a support position player for the run and pass. Last line of defense, but he's not the first line of defense. People bitch about taking offensive linemen in the first round, but yet are okay with a safety in the top five? That position defines the concept of "you can get quality players for that position later in the draft."

**RealSNR** · 02-13-2010, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saccopoo

...then they found something in his game that indicates that he'll have trouble transitioning to the next level. They guy doesn't have the best fundamentals (shoulder pad tackles virtually everytime), has a potential question mark about a lingering shoulder situation, and his numbers in his junior year took a nose dive - at least in comparison to his freshman and sophomore stats. (And yes, I understand that he played up this season rather than being a ball hawk, but his tackle numbers were the same, his sacks went to zero and his interceptions were cut substantially.) He doesn't possess ideal size, especially for the next level. He could be Ed Reed based on his athleticism and passion for the game. He could be Bob Sanders - passion for the game, but because of the size, he can't stay healthy and on the field. He could be just another guy that ends up at the nickle if he doesn't learn to wrap up or can't handle the size of modern NFL tight ends and the like.

He's a stud and has potential, but it's not like he's a slam dunk.

Besides, he's a safety. He won't be put on an island, and is a support position player for the run and pass. Last line of defense, but he's not the first line of defense. People bitch about taking offensive linemen in the first round, but yet are okay with a safety in the top five? That position defines the concept of "you can get quality players for that position later in the draft."

Berry is a once-in-ten-years type prospect at his position.

There's a Russell Okung every damn year in this draft. Okung is nothing spectacular or special. I'd say grab the playmaker.

BigCatDaddy · 02-13-2010, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SNR

Berry is a once-in-ten-years type prospect at his position.

There's a Russell Okung every damn year in this draft. Okung is nothing spectacular or special. I'd say grab the playmaker.

What's up with this strawman of people wanting Okung? I think I've seen like 1 guy on here lobby for the pick.

**RealSNR** · 02-13-2010, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigCatDaddy

What's up with this strawman of people wanting Okung? I think I've seen like 1 guy on here lobby for the pick.

Uhh, I was talking to Saccopoo. He's that one guy who wants an OT with the pick.

Saccopoo · 02-14-2010, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SNR

Uhh, I was talking to Saccopoo. He's that one guy who wants an OT with the pick.

Not really, but I'm not opposed to the idea either. And I'm not so naive as to try to justify that the Chiefs don't need to draft a tackle because Branden Albert was a first round draft pick two years ago. He was picked by Carl and Herm. Their stellar drafting record speaks for itself, especially in the Herm years. They took a flyer on a guy who had never played left tackle in college and tried to shoe horn him into the position at the next level. It was a typical Carl/Herm pick, and his performance on the field has not been good. And that's with two years of starting experience. And that's not even mentioning the rest of the line positions, which all need to be looked at. (Smith being the one potential talent.)

People around here seem to love to make excuses and criticisms for anyone and everyone as long as it's just not their pet player for the Chiefs first round selection.

Our safeties suck. I'd be happy with Berry. Our linebackers suck. I'd be happy with McClain or Spikes or Kindle. Our tight ends suck. I wouldn't mind it one bit if they took Gresham with the #1. Our defensive line sucks. It would be a godsend if Suh dropped.

But guess what? Our entire offensive line sucks even worse and I just feel that it's a pretty important position for a NFL football team. I wanted Oher last year. I would have even been happy if Mack was our pick. And I also felt that if Okung came out last year, he would have been the second best OT in that draft behind Oher. If you don't want a guy like Okung this year, and are holding out hope that Albert gets "it" in his third season of starting in the NFL, or just think that we'll be able to pick up a quality OT in 2011 (when we'd have a shot at Green, Jones, Gabbert or the like), unless some guy has an epiphany, there is going to be a real lack of talent at the OT spot for the next couple of years. Just trying to be a realistic island in this sea of desire for guys who are perceived as high ceiling "playmakers."

With the exception of Flowers and Charles, I don't really care who they replace. They are all expendable/replaceable.

02-13-2010, 05:12 PM	#7
Sam Hall UNSTOPPABLE Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: KC area Casino cash: $9895185	It won't change my view because of what we should have learned last year: The draft board of an NFL general manager is different than the draft board of the average NFL fan. __________________
Posts: 8,137

02-13-2010, 05:17 PM	#11
Saccopoo Kindness in words... Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Zion Casino cash: $10025483	...then they found something in his game that indicates that he'll have trouble transitioning to the next level. They guy doesn't have the best fundamentals (shoulder pad tackles virtually everytime), has a potential question mark about a lingering shoulder situation, and his numbers in his junior year took a nose dive - at least in comparison to his freshman and sophomore stats. (And yes, I understand that he played up this season rather than being a ball hawk, but his tackle numbers were the same, his sacks went to zero and his interceptions were cut substantially.) He doesn't possess ideal size, especially for the next level. He could be Ed Reed based on his athleticism and passion for the game. He could be Bob Sanders - passion for the game, but because of the size, he can't stay healthy and on the field. He could be just another guy that ends up at the nickle if he doesn't learn to wrap up or can't handle the size of modern NFL tight ends and the like. He's a stud and has potential, but it's not like he's a slam dunk. Besides, he's a safety. He won't be put on an island, and is a support position player for the run and pass. Last line of defense, but he's not the first line of defense. People bitch about taking offensive linemen in the first round, but yet are okay with a safety in the top five? That position defines the concept of "you can get quality players for that position later in the draft."
Posts: 15,450

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