Squirmin Herman on ESPN radio trashing Fishers offense

[Valiant]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

And while we're on the topic. I think we can close the book on the idea that haley was a terrible offensive coach. I sure wouldn't mind him running our offense right now.

Ben makes every OC look great though. Haley gets credit for letting them still play that way though.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Valiant

Ben makes every OC look great though. Haley gets credit for letting them still play that way though.

Big Ben actually was very resistant to what Haley wanted to do. He used to be a freelancer, but everyone could see it was taking a toll on his body. Haley forced him into a pocket offense with quicker reads. It was exactly the change Ben needed at this stage of his career.

[Buehler445]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Dick Vermeil's mismanagement left the Chiefs with the oldest roster in the history of the team, and a cap situation that took several years to climb out of. Don't throw that BS that this would have easily been climbed out of. It was a catastrophe. Herm may not have been a good coach. But he inherited a shit sandwich and the situation he left behind was a GM's wet dream.

I will never understand the hate for the guy. He may not have been a good coach. But it is INDISPUTABLE that he took a shitty situation and he left behind a GM's wet dream of a roster/situation. Blame Herm for where he was terrible. Blaming him for the piece of shit roster and situation he inherited is incredibly wrong.

You remain unequivocally incorrect. The last time we got into this argument you said you couldn't think of 10 guys that had 3 year careers. I went through each player on each roster and proved that Dick Vermiel had assembled a group of more players that played an additional 3 years than "personnel Jesus" Squirmin Herman Mother****ing Sack of **** Edwards. THAT is indisputable.

****ing GMs wet dream My hairy ****ing ass. There was. I ****ing talent on the team. At all. Such a GMs wet dream that NO ****ING GMs WANTED ANY OF THOSE MOTHER****ERS. On any team. Sure they were cheap, they were also trash. That does nobody any good.

If I get off this tractor before midnight I'll dig up the posts.

Squirmin Herman Mother****ing Sack of **** Edwards was an axe man. And largely like axe men in business, he cut the payroll expense and was horrible at everything else. Anybody can be an axe man. You could literally walk in the door, cut all the high salaries, draft dudes that are rated high and do as well as that mongoloid. But I bet you wouldn't stand in front of the media and rail on Vermiels "circus offense", would understand that passing isn't the debbil all while being an arrogant one who sucks the penis blathering on about tough football while fielding a miraculously soft team.

**** that guy.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Buehler445

You remain unequivocally incorrect. The last time we got into this argument you said you couldn't think of 10 guys that had 3 year careers. I went through each player on each roster and proved that Dick Vermiel had assembled a group of more players that played an additional 3 years than "personnel Jesus" Squirmin Herman Mother****ing Sack of **** Edwards. THAT is indisputable.

****ing GMs wet dream My hairy ****ing ass. There was. I ****ing talent on the team. At all. Such a GMs wet dream that NO ****ING GMs WANTED ANY OF THOSE MOTHER****ERS. On any team. Sure they were cheap, they were also trash. That does nobody any good.

If I get off this tractor before midnight I'll dig up the posts.

Squirmin Herman Mother****ing Sack of **** Edwards was an axe man. And largely like axe men in business, he cut the payroll expense and was horrible at everything else. Anybody can be an axe man. You could literally walk in the door, cut all the high salaries, draft dudes that are rated high and do as well as that mongoloid. But I bet you wouldn't stand in front of the media and rail on Vermiels "circus offense", would understand that passing isn't the debbil all while being an arrogant one who sucks the penis blathering on about tough football while fielding a miraculously soft team.

**** that guy.

Dick Vermeil had 5 years. 5 drafts, 38 picks, and only 6 amounted to literally anything (I'm being VERY generous with Jimmy Wilkerson. And that includes a punter). Herm had 3 years and brought in 7 (and that's being very generous leaving Dorsey and Page off the list).

Dick Vermeil built a roster of long-term players because he spent a shitload on free agents. Free agents are known commodities. Vermeil gave big contracts to: Trent Green, Priest, Wiegmann, Roaf, Kennison, Morton, Shawn Barber, Dexter McCleon, Patrick Surtain, Kendrell Bell, Carlos Hall, John Welbourn, Sammy Knight. 13 PLAYERS. Herm spent on Damion McIntosh, Ty Law, and Napoleon Harris. DV's personnel success came from signing a LOT of high-priced talent, and hemmoraging the cap to do so.

Being an axe man wasn't easy. Again, Vermeil/Peterson restructured these contracts to death and gave long-term contracts to geriatrics, so there was a massive amount of dead money. And it's well known that Herm went over peterson's head and direct to Clark Hunt to get the axes laid down. In an NFL where coaches get blamed for 1 bad season, it was incredibly bold for Herm to accept losing seasons to clean up the roster.

[Buehler445]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Dick Vermeil had 5 years. 5 drafts, 38 picks, and only 6 amounted to literally anything (I'm being VERY generous with Jimmy Wilkerson. And that includes a punter). Herm had 3 years and brought in 7 (and that's being very generous leaving Dorsey and Page off the list).

Dick Vermeil built a roster of long-term players because he spent a shitload on free agents. Free agents are known commodities. Vermeil gave big contracts to: Trent Green, Priest, Wiegmann, Roaf, Kennison, Morton, Shawn Barber, Dexter McCleon, Patrick Surtain, Kendrell Bell, Carlos Hall, John Welbourn, Sammy Knight. 13 PLAYERS. Herm spent on Damion McIntosh, Ty Law, and Napoleon Harris.

Being an axe man wasn't easy. Again, Vermeil/Peterson restructured these contracts to death and gave long-term contracts to geriatrics, so there was a massive amount of dead money. And it's well known that Herm went over peterson's head and direct to Clark Hunt to get the axes laid down. In an NFL where coaches get blamed for 1 bad season, it was incredibly bold for Herm to accept losing seasons to clean up the roster.

Doesn't matter how they came. Vermiel had more young guys that had an NFL career than Herm. As bad as Vermiel was at drafting -was he even involved? I don't know - Herm was as bad at FA pickups. Like I said, there were more guys that played 3 years when Vermiel was done than Herm. That's embarrassing.

And yes, being an axe man is easy if you don't give a flying feces about winning. It's easy. Trade anything with value. Cut everyone else, sign whomever the **** walks in the door. Crow about being young. Play shit ball. Easy peasy.

[Anyong Bluth]

Meh.. Herm just doesn't get my blood boiling.

Should he have been fired? Yeah.

Was he a worse HC than Romeo, or Gunt-her for that matter?
No.

[Reerun_KC]

Buehler_445 needs less red bull on tractor days....

[Buehler445]

Originally Posted by Reerun_KC

Buehler_445 needs less red bull on tractor days....

No Red Bull. Eating sunflower seeds to stay awake. And apparently fighting the ONE GUY that thinks Herm is anything above tunny hog shit.

[Buehler445]

And I'm not saying making major changes to Vermiels roster was inherently bad. Filling it with the jokers Herm did was bad. Every regime change brings personnel change. If you fill up the team with garbage, you're a shot personnel guy. Herm is a shit personnel guy.

[chiefzilla1501]

For reference:
Here is what the GM inherited. I am saying "GM" because Scott Pioli wrecking that defense apart to install a 3-4 was incredibly stupid:

Defense:
DL: Hali-Tyler/Ron Edwards-Dorsey-McBride
LBs: Demorrio Williams-Shit-DJ
CB: Carr-Flowers
S: Page-Pollard

Offense:
QB: No QB
OL: Albert-Waters-Wade Smith-McIntosh-Barry Richardson
RB: Charles/LJ
WR: Bowe-shit-shit
TE: Tony Gonzalez

The Chiefs needed a QB, 1 or 2 WRs, 2 OL (at least), 2 LBs, 1-2 DL. That's 7-8 new starters.

Sound familiar? We've seen GMs fill that type of roster before. With $7M, John Dorsey brought in a QB, a WR (Avery), a Guard (Schwartz), a DT (Devito), an ILB (Jordan), a CB (Sean Smith). In addition to drafting 2 starters (Fisher, Kelce/Fasano). That's 8 new starters.

Imagine what Dorsey would have done with $50M in cap space if he inherited that roster above (in 2009 cap money).

[TimBone]

Oh, god. We've got to get Reerun to deliver a ****ing stack of autographed 8x10s.

[Reerun_KC]

Originally Posted by TimBone

Oh, god. We've got to get Reerun to deliver a ****ing stack of autographed 8x10s.

You get them to me and I will personally fly out to western kansas, pick up Notorious and we will hand deliver them to Buehler_445.

It would be a filmed and documented trip.

[Reerun_KC]

Well this escalated quickly. Buehler_445 issuing a classic CP beatdown...

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Reerun_KC

Well this escalated quickly. Buehler_445 issuing a classic CP beatdown...

There are plenty of people who agree that:
1) herm inherited a really really bad roster because of vermeil
2) herm made the right and bold decision to blow the roster up, despite Petersons resistance

And there are plenty who understand that comparing herm, who had not only no money to work with, but massive debt on top of an Embarrassingly poor young pipeline of players, to coaches with established rosters and semi stable spending power is completely unreasonable.

I have plenty of support on those points, even from those who acknowledge that herm was a shitty coach.

[WhiteWhale]

Aren't we still blaming Vermeil for 100% of Herm's failures?

Herm is a joke of a coach. There's a reason he wasn't going to take a DC job after he left KC. He can't do it. There's a reason the Jets were going to fire him.

KC lost draft picks to acquire a 4-12 coach who was going to get fired anyway. The team not only declined every season, but actually declined as the season progressed. I can't believe anyone would still defend this clown.

His only claim to fame was that Carl Traded Jared Allen netting a load of picks in one of the deepest drafts in recent memory. A person could have thrown darts at a list while blindfolded and hit on half of those picks.