Squirmin Herman on ESPN radio trashing Fishers offense

[Buehler445]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Dick Vermeil's mismanagement left the Chiefs with the oldest roster in the history of the team, and a cap situation that took several years to climb out of. Don't throw that BS that this would have easily been climbed out of. It was a catastrophe. Herm may not have been a good coach. But he inherited a shit sandwich and the situation he left behind was a GM's wet dream.

I will never understand the hate for the guy. He may not have been a good coach. But it is INDISPUTABLE that he took a shitty situation and he left behind a GM's wet dream of a roster/situation. Blame Herm for where he was terrible. Blaming him for the piece of shit roster and situation he inherited is incredibly wrong.

You remain unequivocally incorrect. The last time we got into this argument you said you couldn't think of 10 guys that had 3 year careers. I went through each player on each roster and proved that Dick Vermiel had assembled a group of more players that played an additional 3 years than "personnel Jesus" Squirmin Herman Mother****ing Sack of **** Edwards. THAT is indisputable.

****ing GMs wet dream My hairy ****ing ass. There was. I ****ing talent on the team. At all. Such a GMs wet dream that NO ****ING GMs WANTED ANY OF THOSE MOTHER****ERS. On any team. Sure they were cheap, they were also trash. That does nobody any good.

If I get off this tractor before midnight I'll dig up the posts.

Squirmin Herman Mother****ing Sack of **** Edwards was an axe man. And largely like axe men in business, he cut the payroll expense and was horrible at everything else. Anybody can be an axe man. You could literally walk in the door, cut all the high salaries, draft dudes that are rated high and do as well as that mongoloid. But I bet you wouldn't stand in front of the media and rail on Vermiels "circus offense", would understand that passing isn't the debbil all while being an arrogant one who sucks the penis blathering on about tough football while fielding a miraculously soft team.

**** that guy.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Buehler445

You remain unequivocally incorrect. The last time we got into this argument you said you couldn't think of 10 guys that had 3 year careers. I went through each player on each roster and proved that Dick Vermiel had assembled a group of more players that played an additional 3 years than "personnel Jesus" Squirmin Herman Mother****ing Sack of **** Edwards. THAT is indisputable.

****ing GMs wet dream My hairy ****ing ass. There was. I ****ing talent on the team. At all. Such a GMs wet dream that NO ****ING GMs WANTED ANY OF THOSE MOTHER****ERS. On any team. Sure they were cheap, they were also trash. That does nobody any good.

If I get off this tractor before midnight I'll dig up the posts.

Squirmin Herman Mother****ing Sack of **** Edwards was an axe man. And largely like axe men in business, he cut the payroll expense and was horrible at everything else. Anybody can be an axe man. You could literally walk in the door, cut all the high salaries, draft dudes that are rated high and do as well as that mongoloid. But I bet you wouldn't stand in front of the media and rail on Vermiels "circus offense", would understand that passing isn't the debbil all while being an arrogant one who sucks the penis blathering on about tough football while fielding a miraculously soft team.

**** that guy.

Dick Vermeil had 5 years. 5 drafts, 38 picks, and only 6 amounted to literally anything (I'm being VERY generous with Jimmy Wilkerson. And that includes a punter). Herm had 3 years and brought in 7 (and that's being very generous leaving Dorsey and Page off the list).

Dick Vermeil built a roster of long-term players because he spent a shitload on free agents. Free agents are known commodities. Vermeil gave big contracts to: Trent Green, Priest, Wiegmann, Roaf, Kennison, Morton, Shawn Barber, Dexter McCleon, Patrick Surtain, Kendrell Bell, Carlos Hall, John Welbourn, Sammy Knight. 13 PLAYERS. Herm spent on Damion McIntosh, Ty Law, and Napoleon Harris. DV's personnel success came from signing a LOT of high-priced talent, and hemmoraging the cap to do so.

Being an axe man wasn't easy. Again, Vermeil/Peterson restructured these contracts to death and gave long-term contracts to geriatrics, so there was a massive amount of dead money. And it's well known that Herm went over peterson's head and direct to Clark Hunt to get the axes laid down. In an NFL where coaches get blamed for 1 bad season, it was incredibly bold for Herm to accept losing seasons to clean up the roster.

[Buehler445]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Dick Vermeil had 5 years. 5 drafts, 38 picks, and only 6 amounted to literally anything (I'm being VERY generous with Jimmy Wilkerson. And that includes a punter). Herm had 3 years and brought in 7 (and that's being very generous leaving Dorsey and Page off the list).

Dick Vermeil built a roster of long-term players because he spent a shitload on free agents. Free agents are known commodities. Vermeil gave big contracts to: Trent Green, Priest, Wiegmann, Roaf, Kennison, Morton, Shawn Barber, Dexter McCleon, Patrick Surtain, Kendrell Bell, Carlos Hall, John Welbourn, Sammy Knight. 13 PLAYERS. Herm spent on Damion McIntosh, Ty Law, and Napoleon Harris.

Being an axe man wasn't easy. Again, Vermeil/Peterson restructured these contracts to death and gave long-term contracts to geriatrics, so there was a massive amount of dead money. And it's well known that Herm went over peterson's head and direct to Clark Hunt to get the axes laid down. In an NFL where coaches get blamed for 1 bad season, it was incredibly bold for Herm to accept losing seasons to clean up the roster.

Doesn't matter how they came. Vermiel had more young guys that had an NFL career than Herm. As bad as Vermiel was at drafting -was he even involved? I don't know - Herm was as bad at FA pickups. Like I said, there were more guys that played 3 years when Vermiel was done than Herm. That's embarrassing.

And yes, being an axe man is easy if you don't give a flying feces about winning. It's easy. Trade anything with value. Cut everyone else, sign whomever the **** walks in the door. Crow about being young. Play shit ball. Easy peasy.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Buehler445

Doesn't matter how they came. Vermiel had more young guys that had an NFL career than Herm. As bad as Vermiel was at drafting -was he even involved? I don't know - Herm was as bad at FA pickups. Like I said, there were more guys that played 3 years when Vermiel was done than Herm. That's embarrassing.

And yes, being an axe man is easy if you don't give a flying feces about winning. It's easy. Trade anything with value. Cut everyone else, sign whomever the **** walks in the door. Crow about being young. Play shit ball. Easy peasy.

It's not embarrassing. Vermeil was trying to win games. Herm was trying to rebuild. Herm didn't have any major free agent pickups because he wasn't trying. That's pretty unfair to compare a guy with a blank check and bank full of money and loans to a guy who is $25M in debt and told he has to sell his house, his car, everything to clean up his finances -- when you're forced to sell your house, you're not exactly looking to spend on luxury items.

If Herm was given 5 years and was allowed 13 high priced free agents, we'll see how he would have done. I'm glad he didn't get 5 years. But to blame him for sitting on not just a hill, but a mountain of someone else's debt?

And no, rebuilding isn't easy. A coach has to swallow a lot of pride and accept losses. The easier thing to do would have been to convince Peterson to pay for a few high-priced band-aids. He could have made that a 6-10 team. Sadly, in KC we would look more fondly on a band-aided 7-9 team that ****ed over our future than a 2-14 team that set us up nicely for the future. And in the case of Herm, he had to rebel against his GM to make it happen. You may not agree with what moves he made, but without a shadow of a doubt, he made the right move by demolishing that roster. Any team who made that decision would have had a very bad season for probably 2 or 3 years. I don't know how it's even a debate that blowing up Vermeil's remaining roster was completely the right thing to do.

[Buehler445]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

It's not embarrassing. Vermeil was trying to win games. Herm was trying to rebuild. Herm didn't have any major free agent pickups because he wasn't trying. That's pretty unfair to compare a guy with a blank check and bank full of money and loans to a guy who is $25M in debt and told he has to sell his house, his car, everything to clean up his finances -- when you're forced to sell your house, you're not exactly looking to spend on luxury items.

If Herm was given 5 years and was allowed 13 high priced free agents, we'll see how he would have done. I'm glad he didn't get 5 years. But to blame him for sitting on not just a hill, but a mountain of someone else's debt?

And no, rebuilding isn't easy. A coach has to swallow a lot of pride and accept losses. The easier thing to do would have been to convince Peterson to pay for a few high-priced band-aids. He could have made that a 6-10 team. Sadly, in KC we would look more fondly on a band-aided 7-9 team that ****ed over our future than a 2-14 team that set us up nicely for the future. And in the case of Herm, he had to rebel against his GM to make it happen. You may not agree with what moves he made, but without a shadow of a doubt, he made the right move by demolishing that roster. Any team who made that decision would have had a very bad season for probably 2 or 3 years. I don't know how it's even a debate that blowing up Vermeil's remaining roster was completely the right thing to do.

Herm didn't rebuild shit. The franchise wasn't set up nicely for the future. Sure cap wasn't bad, but theee was no talent. That's not set up. That's not rebuilt. That's driving 100MPH into a tree with a paid for sports car. Sure you don't owe money on the car, but it isn't worth a damn thing.

To go along with your analogy, just because a dude cleans up debt doesn't mean he is making sound financial decisions. Paying 1,200 a month for a refrigerator box is dumb. Yes it's better than $2,500/month house payments. It it's still a shit decision.

Herm took a mediocre to above average team and basically made them an expansion team.

1. No money tied up.
2. No talent
3. No winning culture, nothing to build on.
4. A couple extra picks.

That's an expansion team man. You're the only guy I know that will say, sure. I'd like to be an expansion team.

The Chiefs aren't the only idiots to overpay for old guys. It doesn't necessitate wrecking the ****ing franchise.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Buehler445

Herm didn't rebuild shit. The franchise wasn't set up nicely for the future. Sure cap wasn't bad, but theee was no talent. That's not set up. That's not rebuilt. That's driving 100MPH into a tree with a paid for sports car. Sure you don't owe money on the car, but it isn't worth a damn thing.

To go along with your analogy, just because a dude cleans up debt doesn't mean he is making sound financial decisions. Paying 1,200 a month for a refrigerator box is dumb. Yes it's better than $2,500/month house payments. It it's still a shit decision.

Herm took a mediocre to above average team and basically made them an expansion team.

1. No money tied up.
2. No talent
3. No winning culture, nothing to build on.
4. A couple extra picks.

That's an expansion team man. You're the only guy I know that will say, sure. I'd like to be an expansion team.

The Chiefs aren't the only idiots to overpay for old guys. It doesn't necessitate wrecking the ****ing franchise.

Not everyone here likes Herm. For good reason. But I know even the biggest Herm haters mostly recognize that the team Herm inherited... there was no choice but to wrecking ball that shit. Not fix it. Blow it up to smithereens and start over.

Herm didn't inherit a mediocre to average team as much as you want to say it. He inherited a team of grossly overpaid, expensive but uncuttable geriatrics. A better coach could have gotten more out of them than Herm did in year 1 (though getting to the playoffs behind Damon Huard is much better than some coaches would do). But after that year or 2, not even Bill Bellichick could have saved this team quickly. You act as if he inherited a workable team then crushed it. He inherited a team that was 1 snowball away from an avalanche.

And the Chiefs didn't just "pay for old guys" during the Vermeil era. They stockpiled on old veterans. Gave old veterans like Wesley and Woods enormous long-term deals that handcuffed them WAY beyond their prime. And to afford their drunk spending binge, they restructured the living hell out of contracts like Trent Green and Priest Holmes to the point where they were exploding back-end timebombs. It was a perfect storm that came from a GM intent on milking that team dry for 2 last playoff runs in 2004 and 2005. This was not just some ordinary cap purge. This was the Titanic. Not only were they $25M over the cap (remember... this was 10 years ago -- that is enormous), they were badly handcuffed to unworkable contracts.

[Buehler445]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Not everyone here likes Herm. For good reason. But I know even the biggest Herm haters mostly recognize that the team Herm inherited... there was no choice but to wrecking ball that shit. Not fix it. Blow it up to smithereens and start over.

Herm didn't inherit a mediocre to average team as much as you want to say it. He inherited a team of grossly overpaid, expensive but uncuttable geriatrics. A better coach could have gotten more out of them than Herm did in year 1 (though getting to the playoffs behind Damon Huard is much better than some coaches would do). But after that year or 2, not even Bill Bellichick could have saved this team quickly. You act as if he inherited a workable team then crushed it. He inherited a team that was 1 snowball away from an avalanche.

And the Chiefs didn't just "pay for old guys" during the Vermeil era. They stockpiled on old veterans. Gave old veterans like Wesley and Woods enormous long-term deals that handcuffed them WAY beyond their prime. And to afford their drunk spending binge, they restructured the living hell out of contracts like Trent Green and Priest Holmes to the point where they were exploding back-end timebombs. It was a perfect storm that came from a GM intent on milking that team dry for 2 last playoff runs in 2004 and 2005. This was not just some ordinary cap purge. This was the Titanic. Not only were they $25M over the cap (remember... this was 10 years ago -- that is enormous), they were badly handcuffed to unworkable contracts.

You are still totally missing the point. You can deflect blame to Vermiel all you want but the bottom line is the dudes Herm brought in were trash. Sure he couldn't go bring in Peyton Manning and Marvin Harrison for the offense and Ed Reed and Ray Lewis for the defense but that does not excuse the trash he brought in.

For ****s sake, Dorsey brought in six guys off the waiver wire that got meaningful snaps on a playoff team. Just because you aren't in the market for marquee free agents does not excuse bringing in absolute ****ing trash players that no GM of any team wants.