The biggest reason our offense was great was the O-Line, Herm didn't ruin it.

[Red Dawg]

Herm has not ruined our offense. We don't have a dominate line anymore which has led to less yardage in the air and on the ground. Couple that with mediocre WR's and a suspect FB and this is what you get.

Trent is looking old as well. His arm no longer has the power to go down field. How many throws have hit the ground. How many times against Balt did they run up and knock the ball away from our WR's. We've seen Trnet under throw our guys more than once this year on deep patterns. This is related to arm strength.

Herm deserves a chance to build his team. Get the O-line he wants and get larger more physical WR's that can get the ball without having to be wide open.

At least we know damn well he will get some more beef for the D-line.

[Reerun_KC]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

See, this is the common misconception.

I'm not defending Herm.

I'm not defending ANYTHING.

I'm ATTACKING opinions that are poorly contructed and ill-informed. Nothing more.

Easy now there big fellow! I think if look at your over all posts you attack anything that is constructed as criticism towards Herm, you seemed to lean towards the defense of Herm...

Herm made his own bed, we are just pointing out the facts to the rest of the board.

Let me ask you this? If our thoughts and attacks against herm are poorly constructed and ill-informed, give us your thoughts, with out making excuses for his coaching style. Without using the lack of his players and injuries as an excuse, obviously his predecessor at NYJ isn’t doing to back with Herms old players...

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by Reerun_KC

Easy now there big fellow! I think if look at your over all posts you attack anything that is constructed as criticism towards Herm...

Herm made his own bed, we are just pointing out the facts to the rest of the board.

Let me ask you this? If our thoughts and attacks against herm are poorly constructed and ill-informed, give us your thoughts, with out making excuses for his coaching style. Without using the lack of his players and injuries as an excuse, obviously his predecessor at NYJ isn’t doing to back with Herms old players...

It's a coincidence.

Hatred, whether it's for Carl, Herm, or anyone else, tends to be firmly rooted in EMOTION. Therefore, detractors are generally more frequent targets because they haven't usually thought out their arguments beyond "So and so sucks!" I have no problem with anyone pointing out facts, but they need to be factual and they have to be in context.

My thoughts on Herm? He's a Marty-clone. I don't really like his style, but I'm willing to give him a bit of a chance. I really wasn't happy with his decision to retain Gunther but I think that's indicative of an overall trend that included both Paul Hackett and Jimmy Raye. I just hope he doesn't completely ruin Mike Solari.

Injuries aren't an excuse, they're a fact of life. You simply cannot remove injuries from the equation and expect to arrive at a relatively objective conclusion of how good a coach did or did not do. Especially when those injuries come to the most important players on the field, namely QB.

Finally, Bill Parcells was Herm's predecessor.

[Reerun_KC]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

It's a coincidence.

Hatred, whether it's for Carl, Herm, or anyone else, tends to be firmly rooted in EMOTION. Therefore, detractors are generally more frequent targets because they haven't usually thought out their arguments beyond "So and so sucks!" I have no problem with anyone pointing out facts, but they need to be factual and they have to be in context.

My thoughts on Herm? He's a Marty-clone. I don't really like his style, but I'm willing to give him a bit of a chance. I really wasn't happy with his decision to retain Gunther but I think that's indicative of an overall trend that included both Paul Hackett and Jimmy Raye. I just hope he doesn't completely ruin Mike Solari.

Injuries aren't an excuse, they're a fact of life. You simply cannot remove injuries from the equation and expect to arrive at a relatively objective conclusion of how good a coach did or did not do. Especially when those injuries come to the most important players on the field, namely QB.


Finally, Bill Parcells was Herm's predecessor.

Yeah totally whiffed on the predecessor thing.... Nice call!

I think you hit the nail on the head and I have said this before. Herm is a Marty Clone. That is why there is so much of a shorter leash on Herm then on the previous not to be named coach.

When the previous coach came to KC, there was a new hope and optimism, the transformation from the so called "3 yards and a cloud of Dust" era was going to take some time. The fans were willing to give them that time. Why? The previous coach had a Super Bowl Ring. It was shiny and blinding to the Fans; little did we know that the previous coach was going to make the Defense ride a short bus to all away games. Super bowl ring equaled time to rebuild program.

Then along came Herm. Now poor old Herm is caught between a rock and a hard spot. First he inherits a steady declining offense with a solid young stud RB. (Although with a little creativity and few risks and this “O" could still be top 10) Herm comes in and right off the bat bashes the offense for the lack of success of the Chiefs for the last 5 years. Well that was a kick in the nuts to the pride of the Chief fans. We took pride in our Offense. It was all we could hang our hat on.

Then he has the monumental task of building the Defense that has been ranked down around the bottom 4 for the last 5 years. This defense had the least amount of NFL talent in the history of the NFL for a defense. (Again thank you previous coach) We all knew that they had to make improvements to help the Defense, but at what cost? The cost came as not trying to improve a declining offense and help the Defensive embarrassment improve.

A couple of things that really eat at the fans of KC,

1. Herm doesn’t think we are very knowledgeable fans. He talks to the media like we have no clue to what is happening on the field. IE "Playing to win the game" When someone questions his lack of coaching abilities.

2. His game decisions leave a lot to be desired. Playing prevent in Cleveland and rushing 4? Punting on 4th and season late in the Baltimore game? Not using timeouts properly. Etc... Etc... Etc...

Lastly, we as chief fans really didn’t want to see this type of football back at KC. We went from 1989 to 2001 with Marty ball type football. It has worn thin in KC. We are not even through the first year of Hermie ball and we are already looking 3-4 years ahead, hanging our hopes that this dark cloud will move on and a change of the guard in KC is just over the horizon.

[Silock]

Originally Posted by Reerun_KC

He talks to the media like we have no clue to what is happening on the field. IE "Playing to win the game" When someone questions his lack of coaching abilities.

You have actually heard the questions the media asks, right? Our media asks some of the dumbest, most obvious questions I think I've ever heard.

[Reerun_KC]

Originally Posted by Silock

You have actually heard the questions the media asks, right? Our media asks some of the dumbest, most obvious questions I think I've ever heard.

I am sure they do, I was just using that as an example....

[2112]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Finally, Bill Parcells was Herm's predecessor.

It was Al Groh.

[MahiMike]

Originally Posted by Tuckdaddy

Herm has not ruined our offense....

I couldn't get past this sentence....

[Brock]

Originally Posted by MahiMike

I couldn't get past this sentence....

At least you have the courage to admit it. I'm sure you can find a remedial english class in your area that can help you with your problem.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by bill parcells

It was Al Groh.

DOH!

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by Reerun_KC

Yeah totally whiffed on the predecessor thing.... Nice call!

I think you hit the nail on the head and I have said this before. Herm is a Marty Clone. That is why there is so much of a shorter leash on Herm then on the previous not to be named coach.

When the previous coach came to KC, there was a new hope and optimism, the transformation from the so called "3 yards and a cloud of Dust" era was going to take some time. The fans were willing to give them that time. Why? The previous coach had a Super Bowl Ring. It was shiny and blinding to the Fans; little did we know that the previous coach was going to make the Defense ride a short bus to all away games. Super bowl ring equaled time to rebuild program.

Then along came Herm. Now poor old Herm is caught between a rock and a hard spot. First he inherits a steady declining offense with a solid young stud RB. (Although with a little creativity and few risks and this “O" could still be top 10) Herm comes in and right off the bat bashes the offense for the lack of success of the Chiefs for the last 5 years. Well that was a kick in the nuts to the pride of the Chief fans. We took pride in our Offense. It was all we could hang our hat on.

Then he has the monumental task of building the Defense that has been ranked down around the bottom 4 for the last 5 years. This defense had the least amount of NFL talent in the history of the NFL for a defense. (Again thank you previous coach) We all knew that they had to make improvements to help the Defense, but at what cost? The cost came as not trying to improve a declining offense and help the Defensive embarrassment improve.

A couple of things that really eat at the fans of KC,

1. Herm doesn’t think we are very knowledgeable fans. He talks to the media like we have no clue to what is happening on the field. IE "Playing to win the game" When someone questions his lack of coaching abilities.

2. His game decisions leave a lot to be desired. Playing prevent in Cleveland and rushing 4? Punting on 4th and season late in the Baltimore game? Not using timeouts properly. Etc... Etc... Etc...

Lastly, we as chief fans really didn’t want to see this type of football back at KC. We went from 1989 to 2001 with Marty ball type football. It has worn thin in KC. We are not even through the first year of Hermie ball and we are already looking 3-4 years ahead, hanging our hopes that this dark cloud will move on and a change of the guard in KC is just over the horizon.

Firstly, let me say that you don't speak for all Chiefs fans. Some of us were VERY excited to see Vermeil come in, because we were VERY tired of Martyball. But some of us were also extremely relieved to see Vermeil LEAVE and we've been without any meaningful wins for SO LONG that we're willing to accept the return of conservatism if it means we can WIN.

And in Herm's defense, a great many Chiefs fans ARE NOT very smart at all. I'm sure Laz will be here any minute, because this really gets his goat, but it's true. I've said it many times:

The average Planeteer is FAR MORE football saavy than the average Chiefs fan.

[HermIsKing]

Thats right htitsmacquae we are savy and can see that Herm is good for the team, and will trn it aroun.

[Reerun_KC]

Originally Posted by HermIsKing

Thats right htitsmacquae we are savy and can see that Herm is good for the team, and will trn it aroun.

dude you might want to invest in spell checker...

You sound like a 7th grader, trying to be funny...


Your not funny, but very annoying.

[Reerun_KC]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Firstly, let me say that you don't speak for all Chiefs fans. Some of us were VERY excited to see Vermeil come in, because we were VERY tired of Martyball. But some of us were also extremely relieved to see Vermeil LEAVE and we've been without any meaningful wins for SO LONG that we're willing to accept the return of conservatism if it means we can WIN.

And in Herm's defense, a great many Chiefs fans ARE NOT very smart at all. I'm sure Laz will be here any minute, because this really gets his goat, but it's true. I've said it many times:

The average Planeteer is FAR MORE football saavy than the average Chiefs fan.

K I dont speak for all Cheifs Fans, but for alot of them...

Going home, will write more tomorrow.

Enjoyed!

[milkman]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Firstly, let me say that you don't speak for all Chiefs fans. Some of us were VERY excited to see Vermeil come in, because we were VERY tired of Martyball. But some of us were also extremely relieved to see Vermeil LEAVE and we've been without any meaningful wins for SO LONG that we're willing to accept the return of conservatism if it means we can WIN.

And in Herm's defense, a great many Chiefs fans ARE NOT very smart at all. I'm sure Laz will be here any minute, because this really gets his goat, but it's true. I've said it many times:

The average Planeteer is FAR MORE football saavy than the average Chiefs fan.

And for the record, some of us weren't happy about either.

[Silock]

Originally Posted by Reerun_KC

K I dont speak for all Chiefs Fans, but for alot of them...

I must have missed the memo.

I just don't understand why so many people have so much vitriol for Herm. It doesn't make any sense when you look at the facts of what this team has been through from after the draft up until now. It's one thing to disagree with the coach and his decisions -- that's fine. It's completely another to become so blinded with hatred that you lash out irrationally at anything and everything you perceive to be the coach's fault. I'm not saying it's you, but I've seen far too much of this going on lately, and the only thing I can attribute it to is 37 years of frustration finally taking their toll on the fans.