Overall Evaluation of our 2009 Draft picks.

[chiefsfan1963]

Jackson seems to be the real deal. How about the rest of our picks?

I would love to hear what our insightful posters takes are.
Posted via Mobile Device

[milkman]

Originally Posted by the Talking Can

just to be clear:

we were supposed to pay Pioli an assload of money to come to the Chiefs and not build the defense he wants, knows, and spent years identifying talent for on Superbowl winning teams, but instead continue with the 4-3 for the sole purpose of building around the piece of shit players acquired by DV, Herm, Gun, and Carl - all of whom suck yak ass and have never demonstrated a single seasons worth of talent, desire, or skill sufficient to win more than 4 games or be ranked better than one of the lowest defenses in the league, the players whose only accomplishment in the nfl is setting a league record for fewest sacks in a season - because we don't want to throw away these valuable pieces and start over?



um........



..............huh?

I don't think many are saying that.

Most of us, however, are saying that the 4th and 5th round picks could have been used more effectively, and that there were free agents that also could have been persued.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by TFG

I don't agree with that at all. DJ is clearly a 4-3 OLB, as is Demorrio. Corey Mays was on the roster already. There were some decent LBs for 4-3 in FA, including the Ram now a Bear = Pisa. I would have grabbed Hagler from the Colts. You have Hali as one DE, Babin as depth. Yes, 4-3 DE needed a boost, and Everette Brown would have been tempting had the Cassel trade not been made. My "best value" at DE was Brandon Williams of TexTech, who has already torn a knee as Dallas 4th rounder. DT, yeah, you needed somebody to push the LOS and not give way to double teams. That was Ron Brace, and he was more important than the DE. So, yeah, as it was with the 4-3 on the roster, you really needed DE and stud run stuff DT = 2 players. You could get by with LB in FA and late picks. And, yeah, you need Glen Dorsey to get his #### together. MLB Scott McKillop is there in Round 5.

With the 3-4, you needed at least two DLs, you are assuming Hali can play OLB, and you don't have anything resembling a serious NT (and failed to get one even after spending 1 and 3 on DL). Sorry, but having Vrabel on the roster doesn't inspire me... The 3-4 "consumed" a lot of other options, especially upgrading the OL from dog#### to elite.

You make a LOT of assumptions.

In a 4-3, you need two, arguably 3 very good 4-3 DEs. And you need a stud MLB. The Chiefs didn't have any of those. They have a good depth 4-3 DE in Hali and McBride, but none that can be an every-down starter.

So while I think we were on the right track in building a 4-3, I would much rather build toward a 3-4 than a 4-3. If you can get a nose tackle, you are mostly there. I would rather look for a nose tackle than 3 DEs.

[the Talking Can]

Originally Posted by milkman

I don't think many are saying that.

Most of us, however, are saying that the 4th and 5th round picks could have been used more effectively, and that there were free agents that also could have been persued.

i was mostly responding to tfg

but as for your point, you could say that about most any team, most any year....i guess i just can't get that worked up about a regime digging out of a shit pile from which they can't even see the sky, currently..so to speak...are things even worse then they imagined? yeah, it seems so...but they bought the "house" sight unseen and thems the breaks...all they can do is move forward..

if we look back and say cassel, jackson, magee, and succop are players - which is not proven, but is well within the range of the possible - then it was a great draft....period

when all these amazing 5th rounders are great players, and Cassel is dead, and magee is in a spit hood, and jackson is selling shrimp off a boat with dorsey, I'll gladly join the parade...until then it seems like a lot people - not you - are cashing in on the future for the luxury of whining now....

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by the Talking Can

i was mostly responding to tfg

but as for your point, you could say that about most any team, most any year....i guess i just can't get that worked up about it

if we look back and say cassel, jackson, magee, and succop are players - which is not proven, but is well within the range of the possible - then it was a great draft....period

when all these amazing 5th rounders are great players, and Cassel is dead, and magee is in a spit hood, and jackson is selling shrimp off a boat with dorsey, I'll gladly join the parade...until then it seems like a lot people - not you - are cashing in on the future for the luxury of whining now....

Like I said before...
They basically bought a Lamborghini without insurance or a car alarm.

It's not about what happens three years from now. It's about the team consciously making a decision to do nothing to protect their major investment now. Because in game 1, I don't care if Cassel performs or doesn't perform. What scares the shit out of me is an o-linemen missing his block and ending Cassel's season.

[TEX]

Originally Posted by milkman

I don't think many are saying that.

Most of us, however, are saying that the 4th and 5th round picks could have been used more effectively, and that there were free agents that also could have been persued.

This.

[the Talking Can]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Like I said before...
They basically bought a Lamborghini without insurance or a car alarm.

It's not about what happens three years from now. It's about the team consciously making a decision to do nothing to protect their major investment now. Because in game 1, I don't care if Cassel performs or doesn't perform. What scares the shit out of me is an o-linemen missing his block and ending Cassel's season.

actually, they bought an empty warehouse and then discovered it was a chemical dumping ground....

they didn't do nothing, it's just that the something they did hasn't worked out...plus, they're making difficult long term decisions - trading tony, moving to a 3-4 - which have negative short term effects....but we've been begging for this for a decade and now before we've played a single game people are already in the buyers remorse stage...i personally finding it baffling

there is no smooth, clean, easy way to rebuild this shit hole of a franchise

and while everyone is busy dancing around Cassel's grave and talking about how shitty our drafts picks are and how awesome everyone elses are, how about we actually let the season happen...you know, the future, that thing that hasn't happened yet contrary to most people's belief...

the sheer volume of "me too"-ism on this board once cassel tweaked a knee - gasp! and flowers is injured too, if only we drafted a backu...wait - has been both hilarious and frankly depressing...

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by the Talking Can

actually, they bought an empty warehouse and then discovered it was a chemical dumping ground....

they didn't do nothing, it's just that the something they did hasn't worked out...plus, they're making difficult long term decisions - trading tony, moving to a 3-4 - which have negative short term effects....but we've been begging for this for a decade and now before we've played a single game people are already in the buyers remorse stage...i personally finding it baffling

there is no smooth, clean, easy way to rebuild this shit hole of a franchise

and while everyone is busy dancing around Cassel's grave and talking about shitty our drafts picks are and how awesome everyone elses are, how about we actually let the season happen...you know, the future, that thing that hasn't happened yet contrary to most people's belief...

the sheer volume of "me too"-ism on this board once cassel tweaked a knee - gasp! - has been both hilarious and frankly depressing...

Cassel = Lamborghini

They didn't buy insurance and they didn't buy a car alarm. And so now, you cross your fingers every single snap and just hope that our "chemical dumping ground" of an o-line doesn't get him killed. I've been harping on this for months.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by the Talking Can

actually, they bought an empty warehouse and then discovered it was a chemical dumping ground....

they didn't do nothing, it's just that the something they did hasn't worked out...plus, they're making difficult long term decisions - trading tony, moving to a 3-4 - which have negative short term effects....but we've been begging for this for a decade and now before we've played a single game people are already in the buyers remorse stage...i personally finding it baffling

there is no smooth, clean, easy way to rebuild this shit hole of a franchise

and while everyone is busy dancing around Cassel's grave and talking about how shitty our drafts picks are and how awesome everyone elses are, how about we actually let the season happen...you know, the future, that thing that hasn't happened yet contrary to most people's belief...

the sheer volume of "me too"-ism on this board once cassel tweaked a knee - gasp! and flowers is injured too, if only we drafted a backu...wait - has been both hilarious and frankly depressing...

I have no problem taking a while to rebuild the D. I have no problem with the Chiefs only winning 4 games this season. I am a huge supporter of the move to a 3-4.

But I am pissed off that they prioritized rebuilding the defense over putting guys in front to protect Cassel. The Chiefs are gambling with every single snap.

[the Talking Can]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

I have no problem taking a while to rebuild the D. I have no problem with the Chiefs only winning 4 games this season. I am a huge supporter of the move to a 3-4.

But I am pissed off that they prioritized rebuilding the defense over putting guys in front to protect Cassel. The Chiefs are gambling with every single snap.

our defensive front seven was worse than our ol last year
our offense actually scored points

if you're moving to a 3-4, then do it...

it's a perfectly rational line of thought, people pretending they "can't understand it" and playing dumb.....and at this point it is more like mass hysteria than anything

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by the Talking Can

our defensive front seven was worse than our ol last year
our offense actually scored points

if you're moving to a 3-4, then do it...

it's a perfectly rational line of thought, people pretending they "can't understand it" and playing dumb.....and at this point it is more like mass hysteria than anything

The point being, if our D-line sucks, nothing gets hurt but egos from a shitty defense. If our o-line sucks, then you can hurt your $60M QB.

It's not mass hysteria. In case you haven't checked, we have a starter who tweaked a knee from poor pass protection, a backup QB who cracked his ribs from poor protection, a fragile QB who amazingly took a huge hit in the preseason and kept on ticking, and we are one season removed from losing 2 QBs in the first quarter of the season to injury.

If there's mass hysteria, it's for good reason.

[TFG]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

The point being, if our D-line sucks, nothing gets hurt but egos from a shitty defense. If our o-line sucks, then you can hurt your $60M QB.

It's not mass hysteria. In case you haven't checked, we have a starter who tweaked a knee from poor pass protection, a backup QB who cracked his ribs from poor protection, a fragile QB who amazingly took a huge hit in the preseason and kept on ticking, and we are one season removed from losing 2 QBs in the first quarter of the season to injury.

If there's mass hysteria, it's for good reason.

Just remember that, no matter what, the Chief Franchise is simply not allowed to spend a First Round pick on an ORT - not nyet never no way...




A Brett Keisel caliber 3-4 DE, sure. Just not a Mark May caliber ORT...

[DeezNutz]

Originally Posted by TFG

Just remember that, no matter what, the Chief Franchise is simply not allowed to spend a First Round pick on an ORT - not nyet never no way...

Has anyone said that?

Or have some posters simply said that spending a top 5, let alone a top 3, pick on a RT is stupid?

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

Has anyone said that?

Or have some posters simply said that spending a top 5, let alone a top 3, pick on a RT is stupid?

The latter. And they would be right.

[milkman]

Originally Posted by TFG

Just remember that, no matter what, the Chief Franchise is simply not allowed to spend a First Round pick on an ORT - not nyet never no way...




A Brett Keisel caliber 3-4 DE, sure. Just not a Mark May caliber ORT...

How many times are you going to rehash old arguments?

[WildTurkey]

How many Recent Super Bowl champs have had O-lines where they had two first round picks at the tackle spots... now ask yourself how many of those recent SB champs had outstanding Defenses....