KU **** OFFICIAL 2014-2015 Kansas Basketball Repository Thread - Page 8

ArrowheadHawk · 07:58 PM

11 straight Conference Championships!

Ranking #9 (26-8,13-5)

Non-Con Schedule (11-2)

Spoiler!

Conference Schedule

Spoiler!

Fri, March 20 NMSU at Kansas Omaha, NE CBS at 11:15a.m. CT

Players

Spoiler!

Prison Bitch · 03-24-2014, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Plow

Sooo, we'll hear from you in the fall of 2015 then I guess.

Probably. Or the spring of 2014 after Bill Self gets a 3 seed and grinds out another 2nd round loss to 11th-seeded Marquette. Falling by a score of, just for giggles, 59-54. After which he compliments the team for their latest conference title and praises them for playing so hard in the loss.

KC_Connection · 03-24-2014, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prison Bitch

If Naadir Tharpe starts next year, I'm going to stop watching every game. I don't want to waste more time than necessary with Jeff Hawkins Part 2. If Self wants to keep trotting that guy out, more power to him. Other coaches know he's a joke and other fan boards all know it too. He doesn't even defend.

I'd anticipate that he'll start the season. Hopefully Mason improves further and takes his spot, but when you have a senior PG with Tharpe's experience level, it's going to be hard not to utilize him significantly. That's unfortunate, because as I said yesterday KU is always going to be flawed as long if 2/5 of their starting lineup doesn't play defense (Tharpe/Perry). It's a tough thing for the others to overcome.

Quote:

And he's never, ever, ever shot well in a big game. And never ever will.

Not actually true, though.

Mr. Plow · 03-24-2014, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prison Bitch

Probably. Or the spring of 2014 after Bill Self grinds out another 2nd round loss to 11th-seeded Marquette. Falling by a score of, just for giggles, 59-54. After which he compliments the team for their latest conference title and praises them for playing so hard in the loss.

Enjoy your time away.

**Lzen** · 03-24-2014, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saphojunkie

I think the reaction is that, in a tough tournament weekend where the offense was harried and out of sync, Conner was the only one who didn't panic, didn't turn it over, and didn't pick up his dribble. He made big shots, sure, but far more important was that he made the correct pass. He appears to understand the offense far better than either tharpe or mason from a PG perspective.

And unlike both of those guys... Frankamp actually played PG in high school. It shows. He's much more comfortable shooting off the dribble than he is floating to the corner for a catch and shoot 3. I'd start him 10 times out of 10 over Mason right now and going forward.

I agree with most of this. Although I will say that I like Mason's penetration ability. And he did show flashes of what a PG is supposed to do throughout the season. My guess is that Frankamp was a little overwhelmed this season by the level of competition. But it seemed to start clicking at tourney time. Hopefully, that's a sign of things to come next year. If Tharpe doesn't pull his head out of his butt this offseason then to Hell with him. Make Frankamp the starter with Mason as the backup. Just split the minutes between those 2 and leave Tharpe on the bench.

**Lzen** · 03-24-2014, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Plow

Enjoy your time away.

I know we will.

KC_Connection · 03-24-2014, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lzen

And he did show flashes of what a PG is supposed to do throughout the season.

He had 15 assists all season. Even at the minutes he played, it was a terrible assist rate for a supposed PG and much worse than either Mason or Tharpe. Couldn't create for others (and he obviously can't create his own shot yet). I guess I'm just not seeing what you guys are. All he did this season was be a spot shooter and he didn't do that well either.

Pablo · 03-24-2014, 11:37 AM

Tharpe will obviously be the starter next year. PB will just have to miss KU hoops.

And I like Frankamp, but he's more of a defensive liability than Mason without the speed on the offensive end. Self with plug in Mason behind Tharpe. Frankamp has the ability to be a fantastic shooter. I know he has it in him, the kid can and eventually will shoot from anywhere on the floor.

I just don't see him taking minutes from Mason; and especially not Tharpe. I'm really excited about Mason. I can see a ton of Sherron in the way the kid plays. He's going to be an absolute stud by his senior year.

saphojunkie · 03-24-2014, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KC_Connection

He had 15 assists all season. Even at the minutes he played, it was a terrible assist rate for a supposed PG and much worse than either Mason or Tharpe. Couldn't create for others (and he obviously can't create his own shot yet). I guess I'm just not seeing what you guys are. All he did this season was be a spot shooter and he didn't do that well either.

It's because you are thinking of all the times he was coming in to play the 2. He isn't a SG, and his % was low because he's never played in a catch-and-shoot role before.

At the end of the year, when he actually came to replace Tharpe and not play alongside him, he finally began hitting his stride. All year, he was essentially coming in to provide some shooting spark. The tourney was the first time he came in to run the offense, and he's just better at that than Tharpe is.

Honestly... I have no idea how the rotation will be. If we end up with Turner to replace Embiid, then frankly it's like we are returning the same exact squad.

I just don't see how a junior perry ellis comes off the bench replaced by a freshman who is used to having a healthy dose of 6'5 unathletic centers on his schedule to crush at will.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pablo

I just don't see him taking minutes from Mason; and especially not Tharpe. I'm really excited about Mason. I can see a ton of Sherron in the way the kid plays. He's going to be an absolute stud by his senior year.

People love to compare him to Sherron, but Sherron was a FAR better shooter and finisher at the rim. God I loved watching him play.

FishingRod · 03-24-2014, 12:01 PM

Every team can use a Frankamp but as a backup that can give the starter a rest and not make a bunch of stupid mistakes. He can do that and have the defense have to pay some attention to him because if you don’t respect his ability to hit a 3 he can hurt you. You still need a starter which we did not have this year.

KC_Connection · 03-24-2014, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saphojunkie

I
At the end of the year, when he actually came to replace Tharpe and not play alongside him, he finally began hitting his stride. All year, he was essentially coming in to provide some shooting spark. The tourney was the first time he came in to run the offense, and he's just better at that than Tharpe is.

When you say end of the year, what are you talking about? The 43 minutes that he played in the last 2 tournament games? Because he barely played at all in the weeks preceding that. And even there, in that time he spent as Tharpe's replacement, he only put up 4 assists over that time which is an awful rate for a PG. He didn't show any type of PG skills at all to me, at least if you care about your PG creating shots for himself and the others.

Frankamp "ran the offense" in the sense that he didn't make mistakes and passed the ball to players better than him so they could create their own shots, but that's not nearly good enough for what this team needs.

Quote:

People love to compare him to Sherron, but Sherron was a FAR better shooter and finisher at the rim. God I loved watching him play.

Not a better shooter, but Mason had a similar assist rate to freshman Sherron and he was better at drawing fouls than him (which is pretty impressive to think about). There was a ton to like about Mason this year.

Prison Bitch · 03-24-2014, 12:20 PM

The concern with Self in 2003 was that he'd bring that slow down, grind out style to Kansas. It hasn't been as bad as we feared (since he's got access to the best talent in the country here) but it's still pitiful to watch in March where all his old Hank Iba-Eddie Sutton tendencies come out of the woodwork and he imposes that gargabe style.

Has it worked? Not really. It worked one time: 2012, where we grinded out multiple wins with 60 points. (It didn't work in 2008 because that team didn't run that style. Was actually full of NBA talent including 2 NBA-caliber long range shooters). The rest of the years he's had tight teams that drop games to double digit seeds. He's gotten tremendous draws most of the time.

He needs another Chalmers or Rush. I really don't care to see any more Jamari Traylors or Blacks or Seldens. This style is abysmal and we didn't even need to run it in 2008 when we actually DID have a fun and incredibly talented team to watch.

KC_Connection · 03-24-2014, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pablo

Tharpe will obviously be the starter next year. PB will just have to miss KU hoops.

Tharpe has shown flashes of being a very effective PG. His play in January was excellent and coincided with the best run this team has. He also finished with the 4th best assist rate for any player in the Self era this year (2004, 2005 Miles and 2012 Tyshawn). You'd just wish he was more consistent and better defensively. What he gives you in passing ability, he takes away with bad decision making often.

KC_Connection · 03-24-2014, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prison Bitch

The concern with Self in 2003 was that he'd bring that slow down, grind out style to Kansas. It hasn't been as bad as we feared (since he's got access to the best talent in the country here) but it's still pitiful to watch in March where all his old Hank Iba-Eddie Sutton tendencies come out of the woodwork and he imposes that gargabe style. Has it worked? It worked one time: 2012, where we grinded out multiple wins with 60 points. (It didn't work in 2008 because that team was actually full of NBA talent including 2 NBA-caliber long range shooters).

Once again, 13 of the 16 remaining teams play at a slower tempo than KU (who is above average). Most of the best teams in the NCAA play incredibly slow. This isn't a talking point.

O.city · 03-24-2014, 12:24 PM

Opposing teams slow ku to that grinding pace. It's about the only way these less talented teams can beat more talented teams.

Slow the game down and make jump shots.

Prison Bitch · 03-24-2014, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

Opposing teams slow ku to that grinding pace. It's about the only way these less talented teams can beat more talented teams.

Slow the game down and make jump shots.

If that's the case, then Self's system doesn't work. If someone can impose their will on you every March (and they do), then their system must be superior. When people want to speed him up, like Beilein last year, they do that too.

You'll notice you can't slow down Louisville because they won't let you. Then again, Pitino is 11-0 in Sweet 16s for a reason.

03-23-2014, 02:07 PM
ArrowheadHawk Rock Chalk! Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Topeka, KS Casino cash: $7744961	** OFFICIAL 2014-2015 Kansas Basketball Repository Thread 11 straight Conference Championships! Ranking #9 (26-8,13-5) Non-Con Schedule (11-2) Spoiler! 11/14/2014 UC Santa Barbara Lawrence, Kan. W 69-59 (1-0) 11/18/2014 Kentucky Indianapolis, Ind. L 40-72 (1-1) Orlando Classic 11/24/2014 Rider Lawrence, Kan. W 87-60 (2-1) 11/27/2014 Rhode Island Orlando, Fla. W 76-60 (3-1) 11/28/2014 Tennessee Orlando, Fla. W 82-67 (4-1) 11/30/2014 Michigan State Orlando, Fla. W 61-56 (5-1) 12/5/2014 Florida Lawrence, Kan. W 71-65 (6-1) 12/10/2014 Georgetown Washington, DC W 75-70 (7-1) 12/13/2014 Utah Kansas City, Mo. W 63-60 (8-1) 12/20/2014 Lafayette Lawrence, Kan. W 96-69 (9-1) 12/22/2014 Temple Philadelphia, PA L 52-77 (9-2) 12/30/2014 Kent State Lawrence, Kan. W 78-62 (10-2) 1/4/2015 UNLV Lawrence, Kan. W 76-61 (11-2) Conference Schedule Spoiler! 1/7/2015 Baylor Waco, Texas W 56-55 (12-2,1-0) 1/10/2015 Texas Tech Lawrence, Kan. W 86-54 (13-2,2-0) 1/13/2015 Oklahoma State Lawrence, Kan. W 67-57 (14-2,3-0) 1/17/2015 Iowa State Ames, Iowa L 81-86 (14-3,3-1) 1/19/2015 Oklahoma Lawrence, Kan. W 85-78 (15-3,4-1) 1/24/2015 Texas Austin, Texas W 75-62 (16-3,5-1) 1/28/2015 TCU Fort Worth, Texas W 64-61(17-3,6-1) 1/31/2015 Kansas State Lawrence, Kan. W 68-57(18-3,7-1) 2/2/2015 Iowa State Lawrence, Kan. W 89-76(19-3,8-1) 2/7/2015 Oklahoma State Stillwater, Okla. L 62-67(19-4,8-2) 2/10/2015 Texas Tech Lubbock, Texas W 73-51(20-4,9-2) 2/14/2015 Baylor Lawrence, Kan. W 74-64(21-4,10-2) 2/16/2015 West Virginia Morgantown, W. Va. L 61-62(21-5,10-3) 2/21/2015 TCU Lawrence, Kan. W 81-72(22-5,11-3) 2/23/2015 Kansas State Manhattan, Kan. L 63-70(22-6,11-4) 2/28/2015 Texas Lawrence, Kan. W 69-64(23-6,12-4) 3/3/2015 West Virginia Lawrence, Kan. W 76-69(24-6,12-4) 3/7/2015 Oklahoma Norman, Okla. L 73-75(24-7,12-5) Big 12 Championship 3/12/2015 TCU Kansas City, Mo. W 64-59(25-7) 3/13/2015 Baylor KC, Mo W 62-52(26-7) 3/14/2015 Iowa State KC, Mo W 66-70(25-8) Fri, March 20 NMSU at Kansas Omaha, NE CBS at 11:15a.m. CT Players Spoiler!** New Players Hunter Mickelson - F Transfer Cliff Alexander - 5 Star C Kelly Oubre - 5 Star F/G Devonte Graham - 4 Star PG Sviatoslav Mykhailiuk - (Not Ranked but equivalent to 5 Star) G Players Lost Tarik Black - Graduation Andrew Wiggins - NBA Draft Joel Embiid - NBA Draft Justin Wesley - Graduation Niko Roberts - Graduation Christian Garrett - Graduation Naadir Tharpe - Transfer Andrew White - Transfer Conner Frankamp - Transfer Returning Starters Wayne Selden, Jr. - G - Sophmore Perry Ellis - F - Junior Last edited by ArrowheadHawk; 03-16-2015 at 07:58 PM..
Posts: 15,676

03-24-2014, 11:37 AM	#112
Pablo Ultrabanned Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Northland Casino cash: $-1740644	Tharpe will obviously be the starter next year. PB will just have to miss KU hoops. And I like Frankamp, but he's more of a defensive liability than Mason without the speed on the offensive end. Self with plug in Mason behind Tharpe. Frankamp has the ability to be a fantastic shooter. I know he has it in him, the kid can and eventually will shoot from anywhere on the floor. I just don't see him taking minutes from Mason; and especially not Tharpe. I'm really excited about Mason. I can see a ton of Sherron in the way the kid plays. He's going to be an absolute stud by his senior year.
Posts: 43,846

03-24-2014, 12:01 PM	#114
FishingRod Veteran Join Date: Mar 2006 Casino cash: $10016661	Every team can use a Frankamp but as a backup that can give the starter a rest and not make a bunch of stupid mistakes. He can do that and have the defense have to pay some attention to him because if you don’t respect his ability to hit a 3 he can hurt you. You still need a starter which we did not have this year.
Posts: 4,265

03-24-2014, 12:20 PM	#116
Prison Bitch Rabbi Goldmann Join Date: Nov 2012 Casino cash: $5450159	The concern with Self in 2003 was that he'd bring that slow down, grind out style to Kansas. It hasn't been as bad as we feared (since he's got access to the best talent in the country here) but it's still pitiful to watch in March where all his old Hank Iba-Eddie Sutton tendencies come out of the woodwork and he imposes that gargabe style. Has it worked? Not really. It worked one time: 2012, where we grinded out multiple wins with 60 points. (It didn't work in 2008 because that team didn't run that style. Was actually full of NBA talent including 2 NBA-caliber long range shooters). The rest of the years he's had tight teams that drop games to double digit seeds. He's gotten tremendous draws most of the time. He needs another Chalmers or Rush. I really don't care to see any more Jamari Traylors or Blacks or Seldens. This style is abysmal and we didn't even need to run it in 2008 when we actually DID have a fun and incredibly talented team to watch.
Posts: 87,025

03-24-2014, 12:24 PM	#119
O.city In Search of a Life Join Date: Jul 2009 Casino cash: $-595936	Opposing teams slow ku to that grinding pace. It's about the only way these less talented teams can beat more talented teams. Slow the game down and make jump shots.
Posts: 84,186