Bob Sutton

[milkman]

I have asked this in threads before, and I get no legitimate response, so I am going to start this thread.

Over and over, and over again, people keep saying that Sutton made no adjustments, and is responsible for the failures of this defense.

I have no dog in this, but I want to know, what exactly do you think he could do?

This defense was playing spectacularly for the first 5-6 games, but then Buffalo, Houston and the Donkeys had enough film to recognize that they could exploit the deep zones because Kendrick Lewis was almost always in the wrong place, and they adjusted their game plans to take full advantage.

Sutton tried to counter that by moving the corners off the line, which allowed offenses to exploit the short passing game and minimize the pass rush, which was also affected by the loss of Houston to injury, and a less than 100% Hali.

The one critisism that is completely valid is that Sutton did not utilize a rotaion on the line that kept Poe fresh, and he was not the same player for the 2nd half of the season that he was for the first half, because he was just worn out.

So, again, I ask, given the limitations of the talent, what exactly did you expect Sutton to do?

[OldSchool]

Originally Posted by Hog Farmer

By the invisibles ?????

We could have lined up two old women in walkers against Hilton and they would have been just as effective as the combination of Lewis and Robinson were.

[Mr. Laz]

Originally Posted by milkman

So, again, I ask, given the limitations of the talent, what exactly did you expect Sutton to do?

I approve this message because i never have enough talent either/GuntherCunningham




If we can't make up for a weakness at a single position then we are screwed. If Lewis was such a problem then why did our coaches keep running him out there?

I can't tell you exactly what he should have done because i'm not a professional NFL coach. I can say that other teams did more with less defensive talent than we did. Our secondary looked disorganized and we allowed the same stinking plays to be successful over and over again. We allowed the same player to kill us over and over again.

tbh i've thought our secondary has looked ragged for years considering i thought our talent was decent. You love emmitt thomas but i just don't see it.

Sutton will get another couple of years but i could very easily everyone saying he doesn't have enough talent over and over again ala goonther.

Our Defense doesn't have to be the best but if it looks like a clutter**** then i'm going to hold the coaching accountable.

[Aspengc8]

Originally Posted by keg in kc

I think Sutton gets blamed because he's the easiest, least thought-required target. Injuries and depth were the larger issues.

First half of the season the defense was 100% healthy. They were getting pressure sending 3 or 4 rushers from nickel/sub packages and usually rushing 5 from base 3-4 alignments. This was letting our secondary play man trail with berry playing robber over the middle most of the time. Makes the QB have to make a perfect throw or risk being picked. When everyone started to drop, we had no rush whatsoever, forcing us to blitz and it was still being picked up because you have guys like Zombo who can't beat someone 1v1. Pick your poison, because your going to get lit up if you can't get to the QB. Even when Tamba & JH came back, they werent close to 100% and you could easily see that.

[Halfcan]

After watching the highlights of Calvin Pryor-I would love to have him in Red knocking the shit out the Donks running those illegal pick plays. We need some hitters back there to make the WR's pay for going over the middle on us. It was our biggest weakness last year. Sutton appeared to have no answer for it? Was that talent or playcalling? I tend to lean towards talent.

[SeeingRed]

Originally Posted by Mr_Tomahawk

Need to draft a pass-rusher at #23.

You're so dead wrong….that is not our problem. WAY more pressing needs than that. Especially now with QB situation. Already have 2 great pass rushers in Houston and Hali. As far as a pass rushing lineman we already have that too in Catapano….all they have to do is play the guy. spending your only pick in 1st 2 rounds on a pass rusher when we have so many other glaring needs makes no sense.

[milkman]

Originally Posted by Mr. Laz

I approve this message because i never have enough talent either/GuntherCunningham




If we can't make up for a weakness at a single position then we are screwed. If Lewis was such a problem then why did our coaches keep running him out there?

I can't tell you exactly what he should have done because i'm not a professional NFL coach. I can say that other teams did more with less defensive talent than we did. Our secondary looked disorganized and we allowed the same stinking plays to be successful over and over again. We allowed the same player to kill us over and over again.

tbh i've thought our secondary has looked ragged for years considering i thought our talent was decent. You love emmitt thomas but i just don't see it.

Sutton will get another couple of years but i could very easily everyone saying he doesn't have enough talent over and over again ala goonther.

Our Defense doesn't have to be the best but if it looks like a clutter**** then i'm going to hold the coaching accountable.

Kendrick Lewis was the single most glaring weakness, but not the only one.

No pass rush from the line, and an ILB that couldn't cover your useless ass, along with no depth behind Hali or Houston.

Once those 2 went down to injury, every single hole on this defense was exposed and exploited.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by SeeingRed

You're so dead wrong….that is not our problem. WAY more pressing needs than that. Especially now with QB situation. Already have 2 great pass rushers in Houston and Hali. As far as a pass rushing lineman we already have that too in Catapano….all they have to do is play the guy. spending your only pick in 1st 2 rounds on a pass rusher when we have so many other glaring needs makes no sense.

You don't approach the draft that way.

There are always needs that you don't anticipate at the time.

[milkman]

Originally Posted by SeeingRed

You're so dead wrong….that is not our problem. WAY more pressing needs than that. Especially now with QB situation. Already have 2 great pass rushers in Houston and Hali. As far as a pass rushing lineman we already have that too in Catapano….all they have to do is play the guy. spending your only pick in 1st 2 rounds on a pass rusher when we have so many other glaring needs makes no sense.

Another pass rusher, or 2, is absolutely a need.

And we already have Catapano?
What, exactly do we have there?

Do you know.
I sure as hell don't,

[chiefzilla1501]

More than anything, I'd like to see him get better at evaluating personnel. Props to him for making a really smart move to put in Cooper and move Flowers to the Nickel.

I don't know why it took until after the Chargers "back-up game" to realize we had better depth than we thought, at least in terms of players we can rotate in to keep our starters fresh. Why did it take until the Colts game to realize Parker and Abdullah should have a place in this defense? Why did Sutton think Dunta Robinson was good enough to start against Indy? If Akeem Jordan is so limited in situations where we want our ILB to have range, why was he playing so many snaps?

I agree… from a scheme perspective, you've got lots of people learning it and limitations based on the talent. I worry about Sutton's ability to read talent, which makes me question if he's always going to get the best players on the field.

[Coochie liquor]

Originally Posted by keg in kc

I think Sutton gets blamed because he's the easiest, least thought-required target. Injuries and depth were the larger issues.

Boom!! There were lots of places to place blame but ultimately it was first year in a new system. We got lucky early with a weaker sched. Got exploited by the better offensive teams. The playoff game was about as freak accident as a game can be. Flowers injury was the straw that broke the camels back. I think we had a good shot at winning that game if he doesn't go out. I think thing will get better as we get th players needed to run Suttons defense. Gotta give it a little time!

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Coochie liquor

Boom!! There were lots of places to place blame but ultimately it was first year in a new system. We got lucky early with a weaker sched. Got exploited by the better offensive teams. The playoff game was about as freak accident as a game can be. Flowers injury was the straw that broke the camels back. I think we had a good shot at winning that game if he doesn't go out. I think thing will get better as we get th players needed to run Suttons defense. Gotta give it a little time!

I'm really excited to see Berry bring it this year. Of all the players adjusting to this defense, he probably had it the hardest. Most write-ups on the Ryan defense say that Strong Safeties have one of the biggest learning curves. I think his work ethic and dedication in the film room is going to make him an animal this year.

[notorious]

He needs to stop wearing out our ****ing D Linemen.

[RunKC]

Originally Posted by OldSchool

God I hope not. We already have one crappy ILB from Bama in Nico Johnson, FML if we draft another one in the 1st.

CJ Mosley is NOTHING like Nico Johnson. Holy shit man.

[Hammock Parties]

You're wasting time debating.

All discussions lead to one inevitable conclusion: CHIEFS SUCK

[ThaVirus]

Originally Posted by milkman

We saw Parker make plays as a blitzer, but we have no idea how he works in coverage.
I agree, though, that is one thing that Sutton could have tried, but at the same time, he also has the benefit of actually seeing Parker in practice.

We don't but, again, I partially have to blame him for that. In this league, you never know who you're going to be missing week in and week out. Guys get dinged up and miss plays, others get seriously injured and miss weeks. That's one of the main reasons you have depth.

It's not like our coverage schemes are all that difficult anyway. We were running man most of the time. He either could do it or he couldn't; there isn't much of a mental aspect involved.

We know for a fact that Dunta couldn't do it so why wasn't Parker given the opportunity? Honestly, is there any possible way that he could have been worse?

I am not convinced that Abdullah has the tools to play the single high safety position, and he lacks the versatility to be moved around in the defense that Berry brings to the field.

But, again, it might have been worth a look.

You might be right although I'd say he's likely faster than Lewis because Kendrick is slow as dog shit.

They were right to bring him along slowly to begin the season, having been away from football for a while, but it's hard for me to imagine that he'd have been worse than Kendrick by about week 13 or so.

Placing him at SS and Berry at FS likely would have forced us to change up some of our looks but we so desperately needed someone capable at FS. I think the drop off from Berry to Abdullah would have been outweighed heavily by the upgrade from Lewis to Berry.

The best way to stop those crossing routes, and really, any other short passes is sound fundamental tackling.
Those passes are going to be completed a majority of the time, so you have to minimize the gains, which forces the offense to start looking for bigger chunks in the passing game, allowing the pass rushers to get more pressure.

Cooper might/probaly would have benefitted from more practice in zone, but, at the same time, you might not want to overload him too early in his progression as a corner.
We know, however, that Sean Smith has historically sucked in zone.

Not sure this works at all.

But this is one of only two responses to the question that I have posed that really legitimately address the question.

Good post.

Right, which is why I like zone more when it comes to defending those especially considering they're two of our division rival's bread and butter plays. If we've got 4, 5, 6 or 7 sets of eyes in coverage all looking in front of them, we'll likely have a better chance to lay some clean licks on guys streaking across the field as well as the opportunity to put more bodies on them if they're able to make the catch.

I just got tired of seeing Peyton dump off a quick hitter to a guy on a drag route with one of our CBs 2 or 3 yards behind him in pursuit, only to allow 10 additional YAC because everyone's eyes are on their man.

I'm sure it's not so simple as saying "Let's run moe zone!" but it is something that needs to be addressed. It's not like our personnel is way off. Flowers is strong in zone while Smith isn't but Cooper is sort of a blank slate. I guess we'll have to wait and see what happens after the draft..