Royals *** Official Kansas City Royals @ San Francisco Giants World Series Game 4 Thread *** - Page 156

**alnorth** · 10:10 PM

Final	1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9	R	H	E
KC	0	0	4	0	0	0	0	0	0	4	12	1
SF	1	0	1	0	2	3	4	0	X	11	16	0

Series Tied, 2-2

Jason Vargas 4IP 3R 3ER 2BB 3K
Jason Frasor ⅓IP 1R 1ER 0BB 0K
Danny Duffy ⅔IP 0R 0ER 1BB 1K
Loss Brandon Finnegan 1IP 5R 5ER 2BB 0K
Tim Collins 2IP 2R 2ER 1BB 2K

VS.

Ryan Vogelsong 2⅔IP 4R 4ER 1BB 2K
Jean Machi ⅓IP 0R 0ER 1BB 1K
Win Yusmeiro Petit 3IP 0R 0ER 0BB 2K
Hold Jeremy Affeldt 1IP 0R 0ER 0BB 1K
Sergio Romo 1IP 0R 0ER 0BB 1K
Hunter Strickland 1IP 0R 0ER 0BB 1K

Home Runs

none

Starting Lineups

KC

1. Alcides Escobar, SS
2. Alex Gordon, LF
3. Lorenzo Cain, RF
4. Eric Hosmer, 1B
5. Mike Moustakas, 3B
5. Tim Collins, P
6. Omar Infante, 2B
7. Salvador Perez, C
8. Jarrod Dyson, CF
9. Jason Vargas, P
9. Jason Frasor, P
9. Danny Duffy, P
9. Norichika Aoki, ph
9. Brandon Finnegan, P
9. Jayson Nix, 3B

SF

1. Gregor Blanco, CF
2. Joe Panik, 2B
3. Buster Posey, C
4. Hunter Pence, RF
5. Pablo Sandoval, 3B
6. Brandon Belt, 1B
7. Juan Perez, LF
8. Brandon Crawford, SS
9. Ryan Vogelsong, P
9. Jean Machi, P
9. Matt Duffy, ph
9. Yusmeiro Petit, P
9. Jeremy Affeldt, P
9. Michael Morse, ph
9. Sergio Romo, P
9. Travis Ishikawa, ph
9. Hunter Strickland, P

ChiefsCountry · 10-25-2014, 10:34 PM

Bottom line is we have a very average to below average middle relief. Its been that way all year and it finally bit us in the ass.

**ChiTown** · 10-25-2014, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alnorth

You are basically saying momentum exists because you know it exists.

Well, it doesn't. If magical thinking makes you feel better, have at it.

Appreciate it. Thanks

Sweet Daddy Hate · 10-25-2014, 10:34 PM

JFC, are these guys going "Lil' Chiefy" on me?

**DeezNutz** · 10-25-2014, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alnorth

quantify this so-called "momentum".

Do you think the players went "oh God this sucks, I don't wanna play hard anymore" or "oh yay, we're winning, time to amp it up!"

The players are going to do what they are going to do, based on what the situation calls for.

Belief in "momentum" is right up there with belief in voodoo magic or witchcraft in my book.

Impossible to quantify this, but to claim that psychology has no role in sports, which is what you're essentially doing, is incorrect.

I don't believe in "clutch," but I believe in choking. Emotions and psyche affect the game, for better or worse.

**Mav** · 10-25-2014, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefs Pantalones

MadBum has an ERA over 4 at AT&T Park this year.

correct. he has pitched like shit at home this year.

This is no guarantee.

**alnorth** · 10-25-2014, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach

The situation would have been different, if Aoki would have stopped being a dumbass, and think out of his brain (or Ned for that matter) that he should had bunted over Dyson to give the R's a RISP, with only one out. It would had stretched the game out longer, to annoy the SF pitcher and make it more tougher on them.

Instead, Aoki hits it right at the 1st baseman, pulls off a double play. Bam. I just knew.

Then SF just went ape shit after that.

That is not what is commonly referred to as momentum.

Pointing out a critical play in history that would have changed the strategic implications of later plays which then would have changed what the manager would have done is not momentum.

**DeezNutz** · 10-25-2014, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Yeah, I remember when the Cardinals had all the momentum after Pujols put Brad Lidge into a sanitarium for three years.

What happened during the next game?

Oh, yeah. Roy Oswalt raped and murdered Busch Stadium.

Yeah, I don't think there is such a thing as momentum from game-to-game in baseball. Doesn't work like that.

In-game? Yes, I believe in that.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 10-25-2014, 10:36 PM

I remember when Jayson Werth walked off Lance Lynn in the 2012 LDS too. Then the Nationals went up 5-0. They ran away with the momentum on that one...

I also remember when the Astros walked off in the '04 LCS to go up 3-2 after winning three straight at Minute Maid. Cardinals folded up shop after that one.

**007** · 10-25-2014, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mavericks Ace

correct. he has pitched like shit at home this year.

This is no guarantee.

tomorrow is all about Shields. Nothing more.

**Mav** · 10-25-2014, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 505 Chief

JFC, are these guys going "Lil' Chiefy" on me?

uh, no?

Two evenly matched teams fighting for a title. This is how legends are made.
If the Royals win, they will be remembered for ever as being a team to beat the "big boys.'

If the Giants win they are a modern dynasty.

its epic.

**alnorth** · 10-25-2014, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

Impossible to quantify this, but to claim that psychology has no role in sports, which is what you're essentially doing, is incorrect.

I don't believe in "clutch," but I believe in choking. Emotions and psyche affect the game, for better or worse.

I'll clarify. The effect of "momentum", especially in the world series, is so small that it may as well not exist.

It might be more of a thing in the dog days of August for a terrible team or for a team well ahead and coasting.

GloryDayz · 10-25-2014, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alnorth

quantify this so-called "momentum".

Do you think the players went "oh God this sucks, I don't wanna play hard anymore" or "oh yay, we're winning, time to amp it up!"

The players are going to do what they are going to do, based on what the situation calls for.

Belief in "momentum" is right up there with belief in voodoo magic or witchcraft in my book.

Perhaps that's a bit dramatic, but momentum is 95% mental (hardly voodoo), doubt creeps in, and too many players start over playing.

I'm sure you played sports, but that's what momentum is, mental... And usually a bad mental state meeting-up with a good mental state, and resulting in the bad mental state players playing scared and trying do things they shouldn't, and the good mental state players having the confidence they need to get the job done and playing withing their limits.

**Mav** · 10-25-2014, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guru

tomorrow is all about Shields. Nothing more.

Its true. Its very true. The Giants have to get on him early. Even though the Royals didn't win game one, they hit madbum very hard in game one.

Shrugs.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 10-25-2014, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

Yeah, I don't think there is such a thing as momentum from game-to-game in baseball. Doesn't work like that.

In-game? Yes, I believe in that.

There is one type of momentum in baseball that I believe in: when a pitcher is shitting his pants.

Coach · 10-25-2014, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alnorth

Your evidence is nonsense.

Momentum does not exist. Pointing to a few times in history where a team suddenly goes on a roll only shows that sometimes something that has a 1-in-10 chance of happening, happens.

Well, I believe my evidence is very strong.

Had Don Denkinger called out instead of safe, St. Louis would had most likely won the game. Instead, St. Louis lost it shit, and blew the game. The aftermath was in Game 7, St. Louis got their shit kicked in.

Had Steve Bartman didn't do a dumbass catching the ball, and if Alou would have caught that, the Cubs would have most likely been in the World Series. Instead, he ****s up the play, frustrated the Cubs/fans/players, etc, and the Marlins took advantage of "Oh, we got a lucky break". It definitely impacted the game. The aftermath, the Cubs lose Game 7.

I can go on and on and on, but I'll just say, momentum do exist in sports, either you agree with it or not.

10-25-2014, 10:34 PM	#2326
ChiefsCountry The Insider Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Lake of the Ozarks Casino cash: $-1631248	Bottom line is we have a very average to below average middle relief. Its been that way all year and it finally bit us in the ass.
Posts: 52,179

10-25-2014, 10:34 PM	#2328
Sweet Daddy Hate Unsparing Join Date: Aug 2008 Casino cash: $10004900	JFC, are these guys going "Lil' Chiefy" on me? __________________ 1. Merciless, severe. 2. Given freely and generously. 100% refusal to overrate 20 year Head Coaches with ZERO **ing rings as a Head Coach. CP's Official Professor of 'Dem Blues for 2019/2020!**
Posts: 77,135

10-25-2014, 10:36 PM	#2333
'Hamas' Jenkins Now you've pissed me off! Join Date: Jan 2006 Casino cash: $7129572	I remember when Jayson Werth walked off Lance Lynn in the 2012 LDS too. Then the Nationals went up 5-0. They ran away with the momentum on that one... I also remember when the Astros walked off in the '04 LCS to go up 3-2 after winning three straight at Minute Maid. Cardinals folded up shop after that one. __________________ "When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read 'all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics.' When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty – to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocrisy.”--Abraham Lincoln
Posts: 75,083