Planeteers Jam Session At Knuckleheads

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by Bob Dole

So what sort of PA, etc is provided?

They have house sound but from what I've heard from people that have played there, as well as simulcast radio, it's pretty bad.

No offense to the sound guys or club itself.

[Dinny Bossa Nova]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

They have house sound but from what I've heard from people that have played there, as well as simulcast radio, it's pretty bad.

No offense to the sound guys or club itself.

I have never been there, but I would guess the problem with the sound has to do with an uncooperative guitar player or a prima donna singer that can't be satisfied. Possibly both.

A guitar player sees a room that size, brings his full stack and turns it up to 11. When the engineer asks him to turn it down so he can mix the whole band, the engineer becomes an asshole and the sound sucks.

When the guitar is making ears bleed, it's impossible to bring the rest of the orchestra up to that level without feedback all over everywhere.

I would bet that if that same guitar player brought his Deluxe Reverb, cranked it to where he is getting some tone, the sound engineer would wind up being a god.

The only thing you can do with a prima donna singer is kind of gross and is usually done face-first up against a brick wall.

Dinny

[Lzen]

Originally Posted by Dinny Blues

I have never been there, but I would guess the problem with the sound has to do with an uncooperative guitar player or a prima donna singer that can't be satisfied. Possibly both.

A guitar player sees a room that size, brings his full stack and turns it up to 11. When the engineer asks him to turn it down so he can mix the whole band, the engineer becomes an asshole and the sound sucks.

When the guitar is making ears bleed, it's impossible to bring the rest of the orchestra up to that level without feedback all over everywhere.

I would bet that if that same guitar player brought his Deluxe Reverb, cranked it to where he is getting some tone, the sound engineer would wind up being a god.

The only thing you can do with a prima donna singer is kind of gross and is usually done face-first up against a brick wall.

Dinny

Yes, that does happen. There are a lot of arrogant guitarists out there for sure. But I've also been in the position where the sound guy just didn't listen at all to what the band was telling him and we couldn't even hear ourselves. That was more a monitor issue but still. Some sound guys just plain suck.

[Dinny Bossa Nova]

Originally Posted by Lzen

Yes, that does happen. There are a lot of arrogant guitarists out there for sure. But I've also been in the position where the sound guy just didn't listen at all to what the band was telling him and we couldn't even hear ourselves. That was more a monitor issue but still. Some sound guys just plain suck.

I don't care what the circumstances. If you find yourself in a situation where you can't hear yourselves, you should never blame someone else.

YOU WILL ALWAYS BE ABLE TO HEAR YOURSELVES BETTER BY TURNING YOUR INSTRUMENTS DOWN!!!! ALWAYS!!! SIMPLE ****ING LOGIC WOULD TELL ANYONE THIS WHETHER THEY HAVE EVER PLAYED MUSIC OR NOT!!!

QUIT CRYING AND TURN THE MOTHER****ER DOWN!!!!!!!

It really is just that simple because it applies even when there is NO sound engineer. Volume knobs have more than one direction.

Turn....the....mother****er....down.

My drums don't have a volume knob, and I can play in a phone booth quiet enough to be asked to turn it up. If the audience wants you to turn it down, you are doing it wrong. If the audience wants you to turn it up.....

Dynamics........get some.

I'm not going off on you, Lzen. But I see a lack of accountability in so many musicians that can't get out of their own way. A good musician's performance should never be placed in an engineer's or anyone else's hands. Don't blame the refs... score more points.

Dinny

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by Dinny Blues

I have never been there, but I would guess the problem with the sound has to do with an uncooperative guitar player or a prima donna singer that can't be satisfied. Possibly both.Dinny

While I'm fully aware of the fact that many guitarists and singers don't understand the difference between stage volume, PA, monitor volume, etc. and so on, this certainly wasn't the issue in the circumstances that I referenced.

There are good FOH mixers and there are bad FOH mixers. The difference between the two can be as large as the Grand Canyon.

[Dinny Bossa Nova]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

While I'm fully aware of the fact that many guitarists and singers don't understand the difference between stage volume, PA, monitor volume, etc. and so on, this certainly wasn't the issue in the circumstances that I referenced.

There are good FOH mixers and there are bad FOH mixers. The difference between the two can be as large as the Grand Canyon.

I absolutely agree. If a band has done everything they possibly can to cooperate, then it is time to hang the engineer.

I'm not suggesting the engineer is blameless.

It is on the drummers, as well. Actually mostly on the drummer. If the drums are too loud in the beginning, the whole band doesn't stand a chance.

Bands are kind of like the QB in those situations. Raise the ability of those around them, and calmly overcome the deficiencies of the inept.

Be a pro, take it in stride, overcome and break a leg.

Dinny

[Dinny Bossa Nova]

Anyone following along is absolutely right, yes I am a crotchety old ****er when it comes to stage volume. I'm not holier than the next mother****er, I just can't stand it when it is so loud you can't hear anything but a messy blare.

I have turned down many, many offers to play in bands full of good players because they simply play too loud.

I can not stand being in front of any audience anywhere that people are grimacing in pain and putting their hands over their ears. That is not why I did all that practicing.

It's a HUGE pet-peeve of mine.

I apologize for being such a bitch, but I will never apologize for being asked to turn it up.

It's actually a fun game/challenge that I've had in a few bands I've worked with. We start the very first song ridiculously quiet and stay at that level until someone asks us to turn it up. If we get a request, we ask which of us needs to turn up, or all of us, etc. The one who is asked to turn it up wins, we all tie, etc. Just a game we kept amongst ourselves, didn't announce it or anything.

We usually got hired back everywhere we played.

Dinny

[otherstar]

Originally Posted by Dinny Blues

Anyone following along is absolutely right, yes I am a crotchety old ****er when it comes to stage volume. I'm not holier than the next mother****er, I just can't stand it when it is so loud you can't hear anything but a messy blare.

I have turned down many, many offers to play in bands full of good players because they simply play too loud.

I can not stand being in front of any audience anywhere that people are grimacing in pain and putting their hands over their ears. That is not why I did all that practicing.

It's a HUGE pet-peeve of mine.

I apologize for being such a bitch, but I will never apologize for being asked to turn it up.

It's actually a fun game/challenge that I've had in a few bands I've worked with. We start the very first song ridiculously quiet and stay at that level until someone asks us to turn it up. If we get a request, we ask which of us needs to turn up, or all of us, etc. The one who is asked to turn it up wins, we all tie, etc. Just a game we kept amongst ourselves, didn't announce it or anything.

We usually got hired back everywhere we played.

Dinny

I think that there is an "art" to finding the right stage volume for the venue you are playing. Good bands find that, and good sound men can make those bands sound even better! A buddy of mine is an audio engineer for NASA and one hell of a musician. When I was in a band with him, we always sounded great on stage and FOH...because he knew how to get my volume (on guitar), his volume (on bass), the drummer, and our singer all well balanced on stage so that the sound man could really make us shine.

[Sorter]

Originally Posted by Dinny Blues

I have never been there, but I would guess the problem with the sound has to do with an uncooperative guitar player or a prima donna singer that can't be satisfied. Possibly both.

A guitar player sees a room that size, brings his full stack and turns it up to 11. When the engineer asks him to turn it down so he can mix the whole band, the engineer becomes an asshole and the sound sucks.

When the guitar is making ears bleed, it's impossible to bring the rest of the orchestra up to that level without feedback all over everywhere.

I would bet that if that same guitar player brought his Deluxe Reverb, cranked it to where he is getting some tone, the sound engineer would wind up being a god.

The only thing you can do with a prima donna singer is kind of gross and is usually done face-first up against a brick wall.

Dinny

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