Chiefs Dorsey-"there are only 10-12 impact players in the draft" - Page 12

RunKC · 04-24-2015, 11:16 AM

@TerezPaylor: #Chiefs GM John Dorsey says there are 10-12 impact players in this draft.

Looks like a trade down is coming. Can you guess the 12 players?

**Rausch** · 04-28-2015, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

He played every snap in multiple positions along the defensive line. He went 11th overall. Anyone that thought he was a "boom or bust" guy hadn't done their homework.

That would be almost everyone then.

He wasn't productive at any spot on the D line.
Moving around was a detriment to him: Pioli stated it, our DC stated it, Poe stated it.
He didn't receive good coaching at the college level. Again, stated by a number of scouts and our own team.
He was a freak talent but had little production vs. lower level competition.
Accused of taking plays off.

His combine is what boosted him from High 2nd/Lower 1st to top 15 talent.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Pioli clearly performed his due diligence and hit on the guy. If he hadn't, another team would now have his services and the Chiefs defense would be worse because of it.

Absolutely. He ended up being a great pick and I've already admitted to being wrong about the pick.

**DaneMcCloud** · 04-28-2015, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rausch

That would be almost everyone then.

He wasn't productive at any spot on the D line.
Moving around was a detriment to him: Pioli stated it, our DC stated it, Poe stated it.
He didn't receive good coaching at the college level. Again, stated by a number of scouts and our own team.
He was a freak talent but had little production vs. lower level competition.
Accused of taking plays off.

His combine is what boosted him from High 2nd/Lower 1st to top 15 talent.

You're basing this on internet "scouts" like Walter, who still compared him to Haloti Ngata. Poe was on everyone's radar and his Combine pushed him into the Top 15.

Anyone that said he was "boom or bust", didn't do their homework.

**Rausch** · 04-28-2015, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

I wholeheartedly disagree.

There are only a couple of teams that would completely and utterly collapse without their Franchise QB and Cassel's already proven that even without Brady, Belichick can win 11 games in a season.

We can argue about who is or isn't a franchise QB but the point is I don't think you need a top 5 guy to win it all.

You clearly don't.

I do think your best chance to win it all is to have multiple swings at it. Having 4 or 5 straight years in the playoffs helps, and having the same QB for that period of time helps even more...

Marcellus · 04-28-2015, 02:07 PM

Every draft discussion I have heard the last 2 days has said that after the top 15 -16 players none of the rest have 1st round talent.

**Rausch** · 04-28-2015, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

You're basing this on internet "scouts" like Walter, who still compared him to Haloti Ngata. Poe was on everyone's radar and his Combine pushed him into the Top 15.

Anyone that said he was "boom or bust", didn't do their homework.

Quote:

Poe was originally perceived as "the ideal two-gap 3–4 nose tackle" due to his massive frame,[23] but former NFL defensive lineman John Thornton described Poe as "more of a move guy than a big space eater," able to play in a 4–3 defense, too.[24] However, Thornton also uttered concerns over Poe's mediocre college career. According to Jonathan Bales of the New York Times, Poe was "the ultimate boom-or-bust prospect—loaded with potential, but failing to capitalize on it in college."[25] The Sporting News compared Poe to Ryan Sims and Jimmy Kennedy, two highly selected lineman who "were immensely talented yet struggled because of inconsistent effort and competitiveness."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dontari_Poe

I can't sit here and tell you what went through the minds of NFL GM's and scouts. I don't know.

It depends on if the Mayock, Kiper, or McShay's of the world are valid commentators on draft talent. There are sources they say they talked to but we either trust them or not.

I really don't know why I'm even arguing this. He worked out - it was a solid pick. I guess the point is it was a very brave pick because there was risk there...

**Rausch** · 04-28-2015, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rausch

We can argue about who is or isn't a franchise QB but the point is I don't think you need a top 5 guy to win it all.

You clearly don't.

I do think your best chance to win it all is to have multiple swings at it. Having 4 or 5 straight years in the playoffs helps, and having the same QB for that period of time helps even more...

I don't know if I'd agree with that.

I do think the top end talent isn't as high. I guess there's just not that guy I'd be willing to make a "trade the future" pick for. Not even a guy I'd be tempted to do it for...

**DaneMcCloud** · 04-28-2015, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcellus

Every draft discussion I have heard the last 2 days has said that after the top 15 -16 players none of the rest have 1st round talent.

And out of those 15-16 players, maybe five will make an immediate impact.

Go back and look at 2013 & 2014's first rounders. QB's not withstanding, it's pretty putrid, especially 2013.

The best first rounder in the past two drafts, IMO, is Odell Beckham, jr.

**DaneMcCloud** · 04-28-2015, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rausch

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dontari_Poe

I can't sit here and tell you what went through the minds of NFL GM's and scouts. I don't know.

It depends on if the Mayock, Kiper, or McShay's of the world are valid commentators on draft talent. There are sources they say they talked to but we either trust them or not.

I really don't know why I'm even arguing this. He worked out - it was a solid pick. I guess the point is it was a very brave pick because there was risk there...

Keep in mind, they're not experts, nor are they scouts. They're journalists that just follow up leads.

More and more scouts are beginning to anonymously give their opinions. Take a look at this scout's opinion of the available 2015 draftees. He doesn't even believe that Vic Beasley is worthy of a first rounder, yet he's Top Five on everyone's mock draft.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/...y-make-the-cut

xztop123 · 04-28-2015, 02:50 PM

Who cares what Dorsey says

Ballard is callign the shots in this draft. Dorsey is just talking to the media and setting up meetings

xztop123 · 04-28-2015, 02:54 PM

Chiefs first is either Perriman or Devante Parker with a very outside shot of DGB

milkman · 04-28-2015, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Keep in mind, they're not experts, nor are they scouts. They're journalists that just follow up leads.

More and more scouts are beginning to anonymously give their opinions. Take a look at this scout's opinion of the available 2015 draftees. He doesn't even believe that Vic Beasley is worthy of a first rounder, yet he's Top Five on everyone's mock draft.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/...y-make-the-cut

If he had talked to another scout, he would most likely have gotten a different board.

milkman · 04-28-2015, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

I'm not singling you out but I am just so tired of this bullshit.

There are maybe four "Franchise QB's" in the NFL: Rodgers, Manning, Brady and Luck. That's it. And Manning & Brady have been in the league for 12+ years.

To win a Super Bowl, a team has to be comprised of good players that play well within their system.

Effective, structured, disciplined, minimal-mistake football. "Franchise QB" is a myth created by the NFL Front Office to lure fans into thinking their team needs one to succeed, thus hyping the draft, thus more ad revenues, thus more money in the NFL coffers.

To consistently compete, year in and year out for a decade or more, you need a QB.

**DaneMcCloud** · 04-28-2015, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman

If he had talked to another scout, he would most likely have gotten a different board.

Yep, most likely. But I do think it's interesting how a scout, who's armed with all of a team's information, not just what's available on film and public record, can differ so much from the mockers.

I'm not trying to denigrate or vilify those that aren't privy to that info, just pointing out how different it can and may be from those who don't have all of the info about players at hand.

**DaneMcCloud** · 04-28-2015, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman

To consistently compete, year in and year out for a decade or more, you need a QB.

A good QB? Sure. But a "once in a generation talent"?

I'm of the opinion that once Brady and Manning retire (in 2020 or whenever), the league will look very, very different because all of the true arm talent is heading to baseball, not football.

Outside of Luck and Rodgers, I can't think of one guy that will mean as much to his franchise as Manning did to Indy or Brady to New England.

**Rausch** · 04-28-2015, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Yep, most likely. But I do think it's interesting how a scout, who's armed with all of a team's information, not just what's available on film and public record, can differ so much from the mockers.

I'm not trying to denigrate or vilify those that aren't privy to that info, just pointing out how different it can and may be from those who don't have all of the info about players at hand.

Even with anonymous scouts telling their rankings we'll never know how much is true and how much is them wanting to skew the view...

04-24-2015, 11:16 AM
RunKC Andy Reid Supporter Join Date: Apr 2012 Casino cash: $-1750389	Dorsey-"there are only 10-12 impact players in the draft" @TerezPaylor: #Chiefs GM John Dorsey says there are 10-12 impact players in this draft. Looks like a trade down is coming. Can you guess the 12 players?
Posts: 52,271

04-28-2015, 02:07 PM	#169
Marcellus Diablo Negro Join Date: Sep 2003 Casino cash: $-597338	Every draft discussion I have heard the last 2 days has said that after the top 15 -16 players none of the rest have 1st round talent.
Posts: 74,440

04-28-2015, 02:50 PM	#174
xztop123 Veteran Join Date: Apr 2013 Casino cash: $1080609	Who cares what Dorsey says Ballard is callign the shots in this draft. Dorsey is just talking to the media and setting up meetings
Posts: 2,132

04-28-2015, 02:54 PM	#175
xztop123 Veteran Join Date: Apr 2013 Casino cash: $1080609	Chiefs first is either Perriman or Devante Parker with a very outside shot of DGB
Posts: 2,132