*****The Steven Nelson Thread*****

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by RunKC

I have been watching him on draftbreakdown and I've gotta say his style of play really reminds me of Brandon Flowers.
He's not scared of anybody. If you get a chance go watch him play against Jaelen Strong. He owned him and was in his face all day.

I think our two 3rd rd picks can be just as good as our two 3rd rd picks in 2013. Conley and Nelson are the best overall picks in the draft bc we got so much value.

Look at who teams took. Would you rather have Steven Nelson or that 5'8" midget that PIT drafted in rd 2 from Ole Miss?
Would you rather have Conley or Devin "20 drops in 3 years" Funchess?

Both these picks appear to have provided incredible value.

Would you rather have Conley or Jaelen 'got his ass owned by a mediocre Steven Nelson' Strong

We'll see. If he's a 4-year quasi-starter for us by locking up the Nickel role, then it's a good pick. My concern is that Sutton's defenses have largely struggled when trying to put a 'slot' corner at NCB. It looks to me like Sutton's scheme simply requires that you have 3 guys with the skills to play out wide playing CB, NCB included. I don't see those skills in Nelson. His lack of speed and size will leave him exposed at times. I know conventional wisdom says you can hide that in the slot but NFL O-Coordinators make a living kicking the shit out of conventional wisdom. If they find a weakness, they'll exploit it.

Ramik Wilson was my least favorite pick of the draft, this is second. We appear to have traded the upside and athleticism of a guy like Josh Shaw for the higher floor and aggressiveness of Nelson. I understand the philosophy, it's just not the approach I'd have taken.

[staylor26]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Would you rather have Conley or Jaelen 'got his ass owned by a mediocre Steven Nelson' Strong

We'll see. If he's a 4-year quasi-starter for us by locking up the Nickel role, then it's a good pick. My concern is that Sutton's defenses have largely struggled when trying to put a 'slot' corner at NCB. It looks to me like Sutton's scheme simply requires that you have 3 guys with the skills to play out wide playing CB, NCB included. I don't see those skills in Nelson. His lack of speed and size will leave him exposed at times. I know conventional wisdom says you can hide that in the slot but NFL O-Coordinators make a living kicking the shit out of conventional wisdom. If they find a weakness, they'll exploit it.

Ramik Wilson was my least favorite pick of the draft, this is second. We appear to have traded the upside and athleticism of a guy like Josh Shaw for the higher floor and aggressiveness of Nelson. I understand the philosophy, it's just not the approach I'd have taken.

I usually agree with your takes, but I think you're off on Nelson. He most certainly has the size and speed to play outside. He's faster than Peters and only a couple inches shorter. He's also physical and plays bigger than he is. I think Nelson is the perfect nickel for our scheme.

[Frosty]

Originally Posted by staylor26

I usually agree with your takes, but I think you're off on Nelson. He most certainly has the size and speed to play outside. He's faster than Peters and only a couple inches shorter. He's also physical and plays bigger than he is. I think Nelson is the perfect nickel for our scheme.

Nelson is an inch taller and 10 pounds heavier than Flowers and ran a similar 40 at the Combine but is only a mediocre nickle in the NFL because of his size and speed? M'kay.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Frosty

Nelson is an inch taller and 10 pounds heavier than Flowers and ran a similar 40 at the Combine but is only a mediocre nickle in the NFL because of his size and speed? M'kay.

Flowers was a sub-par press-man corner because of size and athletic limitations.

If you're playing a Cover-2 or similar zone scheme, you should probably be just fine with Nelson wide. However, let's not forget that Flowers was a mediocre nickel on this team when we switched to Sutton's press-man scheme.

Don't just try to attach a 'name' former player to another prospect without considering how that player would fit in what we do now. You should be especially careful about doing so when said former player actually played in this system and didn't do it terribly well.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by kcchiefsus

Continuing on the Brandon Flowers comparison (not sure if there is a comparison or not to be honest), Flowers wasn't the biggest guy or the fastest either. Granted, that was in more of a cover 2 scheme when he excelled here.

I have no clue how Nelson will turn out by there are plenty of guys who had other attributes that made up for a lack of athleticism or the ideal height. If he has the right tenacity and can be coached up with great technique then there's no reason he can't be a solid defender. Clearly the Chiefs saw something in him.

But the bolded is what I'm concerned about.

I don't know how Nelson will fit everywhere, but I do know how Flowers fit here and in the press scheme, it wasn't great. Moreover, trying to compare Flowers to Nelson isn't fair either as Flowers was quite a bit more fluid than what I see from Nelson.

My point being that even if you can make a Flowers comparison - though I believe it's a reach - Flowers still wasn't terribly good in this system precisely due to the lack of speed and size. Owens wasn't very good. Robinson wasn't very good. Undersized corners without great closing speed can work in some systems but they don't appear to work worth a damn in this one.

Obviously Nelson could prove me wrong, I'm just going by what corners have succeeded/failed in this system and what I see in the guy.

[kcchiefsus]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

But the bolded is what I'm concerned about.

I don't know how Nelson will fit everywhere, but I do know how Flowers fit here and in the press scheme, it wasn't great. Moreover, trying to compare Flowers to Nelson isn't fair either as Flowers was quite a bit more fluid than what I see from Nelson.

My point being that even if you can make a Flowers comparison - though I believe it's a reach - Flowers still wasn't terribly good in this system precisely due to the lack of speed and size. Owens wasn't very good. Robinson wasn't very good. Undersized corners without great closing speed can work in some systems but they don't appear to work worth a damn in this one.

Obviously Nelson could prove me wrong, I'm just going by what corners have succeeded/failed in this system and what I see in the guy.

I already deleted my post because I kind of realized that making the Flowers comparison doesn't help Nelson's case. Player comparisons are dumb anyways.

[Frosty]

Originally Posted by kcchiefsus

I already deleted my post because I kind of realized that making the Flowers comparison doesn't help Nelson's case. Player comparisons are dumb anyways.

I only brought up Flowers in reference to the size and speed bit. I never said he was similar to Flowers. In fact, it's obvious Nelson isn't Flowers as he is both bigger and faster.

I still believer that a lot of Nelson's apparent limitations in college are because of the shitty coaching DBs got at OS. Nelson played very well at the Senior Bowl when he got real coaching and got to work on his technique. It remains to be seen if he can continue to improve but I believe he will.

I will admit to being a bit of a homer on this pick.

[kcchiefsus]

Originally Posted by Frosty

I only brought up Flowers in reference to the size and speed bit. I never said he was similar to Flowers. In fact, it's obvious Nelson isn't Flowers as he is both bigger and faster.

I still believer that a lot of Nelson's apparent limitations in college are because of the shitty coaching DBs got at OS. Nelson played very well at the Senior Bowl when he got real coaching and got to work on his technique. It remains to be seen if he can continue to improve but I believe he will.

I will admit to being a bit of a homer on this pick.

I agree with you, I was just stating that the comparison didn't help his case. I was making the comparison too but realized it wasn't a good comparison.

[RunKC]

I like that Nelson has good feet for the position. His 3 cone and 40 are solid for nickel CB's.
I think he will be the 5th CB to start the year much like Gaines was pushed down the depth chart last season. Get him some experience and ease him in. Really think that Peters, Smith and Gaines are our top 3 with Fleming as a backup.

We desperately needed depth after Gaines/Fleming's injury problems and Cooper not panning out. They knew they couldn't rely on Parker anymore. He's just not that good there.

I do feel really good about the CB position and hope we add another one next season, as well as WR's. The game really is moving to the outsides and you definitely need a myriad of good players there.

Look at who we are playing this season. GB and DEN have plenty of good WR's and PIT/IND added more to their elite units. We needed to prepare for that.