Alex Fodder

[ThaVirus]

Originally Posted by Sandy Cheeks

again, looking for QBs that are not regarded as elite.. naming a few elite QBs does not really strength your case or weaken mine here... whether even those elite QBs meet the requirements of the argument of having crap OLs and deep weapons.



As for Wilson, his OL hasn't been particularly good, but it also hasn't been bottom 5 as has Smith's. He also has rare evasiveness, which can allow him to make more broken play bombs.





Name non-elite QBs with trash OLs and deep weapons that have found relatively consistent success.

Wilson fits the criteria.

Philip Rivers has played behind some booty offensive lines and, outside of Vincent Jackson, hasn't had a great stable of receivers.

[Sandy Vagina]

Originally Posted by ThaVirus

Wilson fits the criteria.

Philip Rivers has played behind some booty offensive lines and, outside of Vincent Jackson, hasn't had a great stable of receivers.

Wilson's overall stats are in the same ballpark as Smith's. Similar yardage, TDs, INTs, rating... the comparison on their YIA (yards in air) is 1,390 vs 1,603..

Rivers definitely did have a suck ass OL, and played well last year. Most lately would put Rivers just at the bottom of that elite group// or at the top of the tier two group. He has really stepped up in the last couple of years. Keenan Allen, Floyd, and Gates are not in the bottom tier group of pass weapons though.

Still looking for QBs that have excelled with bottom OLs and pass weapons.

[ThaVirus]

Originally Posted by Sandy Cheeks

Wilson's overall stats are in the same ballpark as Smith's. Similar yardage, TDs, INTs, rating... the comparison on their YIA (yards in air) is 1,390 vs 1,603..

Rivers definitely did have a suck ass OL, and played well last year. Most lately would put Rivers just at the bottom of that elite group// or at the top of the tier two group. He has really stepped up in the last couple of years. Keenan Allen, Floyd, and Gates are not in the bottom tier group of pass weapons though.

Still looking for QBs that have excelled with bottom OLs and pass weapons.

You'll never get an answer that satisfies the criteria in your head...

Allen and Floyd are not great receiving weapons. They've got potential, but how much of their production can you attribute to Philip Rivers being a baller? A shoddy offensive line, a nonexistent running game and a couple average-at-best perimeter weapons.

Andrew Luck has played with some horrible surrounding talent. At times his offensive line has been bad, their running game is atrocious, and he's basically had a 54 year old Reggie Wayne and an ascending TY Hilton on the perimeter.

[Sandy Vagina]

Originally Posted by ThaVirus

You'll never get an answer that satisfies the criteria in your head...

doesn't sound that way, no. Even if to accept the few elites, Rivers being a top 7 QB, and Wilson... the list still is short. Just don't seem to be many non-elite QBs that excel with both bottom tier WRs and OLs. So why should Alex be expected to? Only now can we say that Smith is being paid top dollar vs the cap.. and only now can we say the pass options are above bottom tier.

That still leave the OL tier to be determined.

Now, I'd say he does have enough promising pass weapons for a better year.. but OL? impossible to say. I am guessing the OL does crawl out from bottom 10. So if they do and Smith still plays too much small ball that is ineffective? yes, I too will be disappointed.. and will share in the QB frustration.

Originally Posted by ThaVirus

Allen and Floyd are not great receiving weapons.

The words we use are important. No, I am not calling Rivers' pass weapons great.. and interesting that you left Gates out of the equation... but again, we are talking about bottom tier... not good... not "great." His pass options are at least better than bottom tier, imho.

Originally Posted by ThaVirus

Andrew Luck has played with some horrible surrounding talent. At times his offensive line has been bad, their running game is atrocious, and he's basically had a 54 year old Reggie Wayne and an ascending TY Hilton on the perimeter.

a 54 yr old Wayne was better than any WR that the Chiefs have fielded lately. I think most would agree that an old Wayne would have been a better pairing for Alex than Bowe.. though not by miles. Hilton is a larger asset in the pass game than all of the WR pass weapons that KC has had in the last 2 years. Even "pure" Chiefs fans stated that they would trade every single WR on their roster for one Hilton. Ether way... again, we are talking about Luck.. who most would label a QB God in the making.

[ThaVirus]

Originally Posted by Sandy Cheeks

doesn't sound that way, no. Even if to accept the few elites, Rivers being a top 7 QB, and Wilson... the list still is short. Just don't seem to be many non-elite QBs that excel with both bottom tier WRs and OLs. So why should Alex be expected to? Only now can we say that Smith is being paid top dollar vs the cap.. and only now can we say the pass options are above bottom tier.

That still leave the OL tier to be determined.

Now, I'd say he does have enough promising pass weapons for a better year.. but OL? impossible to say. I am guessing the OL does crawl out from bottom 10. So if they do and Smith still plays too much small ball that is ineffective? yes, I too will be disappointed.. and will share in the QB frustration.



The words we use are important. No, I am not calling Rivers' pass weapons great.. and interesting that you left Gates out of the equation... but again, we are talking about bottom tier... not good... not "great." His pass options are at least better than bottom tier, imho.



a 54 yr old Wayne was better than any WR that the Chiefs have fielded lately. I think most would agree that an old Wayne would have been a better pairing for Alex than Bowe.. though not by miles. Hilton is a larger asset in the pass game than all of the WR pass weapons that KC has had in the last 2 years. Even "pure" Chiefs fans stated that they would trade every single WR on their roster for one Hilton. Ether way... again, we are talking about Luck.. who most would label a QB God in the making.

I left Gates out because you initially asked for a QB that excelled with shit OL and "deep weapons". Not to mention the fact that Alex has had Vernon Davis and Travis Kelce at TE for most of the past 4 seasons. I'd take both of those guys up there with Gates so it's a wash.

Even still, you're going to keep making excuses as you always do. Once again, how much of a WR's production can we attribute to his QB? Alex has had some talent at the WR position recently. Oh, but Michael Crabtree was lazy. Bowe was lazy. Moss was old. Manningham was hurt. Avery was never good... Any QB worth his salt could make due with those guys while boasting a top 5 ground game and top 5 TE talent as well.

[Sandy Vagina]

Originally Posted by ThaVirus

Even still, you're going to keep making excuses as you always do.

That's fine. The point was, I asked if anyone could name some non-QBs that have excelled with bottom tier OLs and WRs.

You and others managed to come up with Brady, Manning, Rodgers, Rivers, Luck.. and Wilson. 3 are clearly elite.. one is borderline elite.. Luck is Luck.. and Wilson puts up similar production to Smith, but yes.. does chuck it up deep more often.

Great job!

[ThaVirus]

Originally Posted by Sandy Cheeks

That's fine. The point was, I asked if anyone could name some non-QBs that have excelled with bottom tier OLs and WRs.

You and others managed to come up with Brady, Manning, Rodgers, Rivers, Luck.. and Wilson. 3 are clearly elite.. one is borderline elite.. Luck is Luck.. and Wilson puts up similar production to Smith, but yes.. does chuck it up deep more often.

Great job!

It's not fine. It's ****ing annoying. I just provided you with more than a handful of names that find ways to excel despite subpar line play and receiving weapons. You continue to make excuses..

"Well......... THOSE GUYS ARE ALL GOOD!" No ****ing shit.

[temper11]

Originally Posted by ThaVirus

Oh, but Michael Crabtree was lazy. Bowe was lazy. Moss was old. Manningham was hurt. Avery was never good... Any QB worth his salt could make due with those guys while boasting a top 5 ground game and top 5 TE talent as well.

Any of these guys, or any other WR for that matter that Smith has played with, excel when Smith left? You could point to crabtree but basically Kap just took the yards that were going to Davis and gave them to crab. Then crabtree fell off and had to settle for the raiders. Moss WAS freaking old and then retired AGAIN. Manningham was hurt and old and also retired. Bowe may do something again next year, now that he lost his big contract, we'll see. I don't know about Avery, I can't even recall where he was picked up.

[ViperVisor]

Rivers has had 31 total drops the last 2 seasons.

KC 31 and 29 the last 2.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Originally Posted by ViperVisor

Rivers has had 31 total drops the last 2 seasons.

KC 31 and 29 the last 2.

I'm piss poor at math and trying to do that in my head, but I'm thinking that is a whopping 5-7% of the passes he's thrown.

Another really pathetic attempt at an excuse.