Chiefs Two 1st round picks for Russell Wilson in '16 and '17 or '17 and '18 - Page 4

Discuss Thrower · 06-21-2015, 11:57 AM

Clayton on show seems to hint that SEA would be open to non-exclusive Tag for RW in 2016- seems surprising but SEA will study all avenues
— DAVIS HSU (@DavisHsuSeattle) June 20, 2015

Do you sign the offer sheet if the Seahawks non-exclusively tag Russell Wilson?

Pole cumming.

ThaVirus · 06-21-2015, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

With Wilson's contract for certain.

Luck's team enjoys the same advantage, albeit at a lesser degree.

And for all the talk about Wilson's defense, that Colt defense usually plays pretty well in big games (cue people bringing up their playoff game against the Chiefs).

O.city · 06-21-2015, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThaVirus

Of course, no one knows until he's called to do it consistently.

The fact that they don't ask him to throw the ball 30+ times per game should be obvious. They have the best defense in the league. Like I said, even with Aaron Rodgers at QB they wouldn't be slinging the rock 30+ times per game. It'd be an unnecessary risk.

With that defense though, it's not unnecessary. It's the same argument people have here (OTWP for certain iirc) with Alex smith.

ThaVirus · 06-21-2015, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

With that defense though, it's not unnecessary. It's the same argument people have here (OTWP for certain iirc) with Alex smith.

I agree that a great defense affords you the opportunity to take some risks.

But for one, head coaches in the NFL are pussies, and two, it would be inexcusable to throw the ball 40+ times per game with that Seahawk's defense.

I don't think guys like OTWP are pining for a QB to throw the ball a ton so much as they're asking for our QB to be more aggressive with the opportunities he's given. Russell Wilson has a great balance of aggression and risk aversion.

O.city · 06-21-2015, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThaVirus

I agree that a great defense affords you the opportunity to take some risks.

But for one, head coaches in the NFL are pussies, and two, it would be inexcusable to throw the ball 40+ times per game with that Seahawk's defense.

I don't think guys like OTWP are pining for a QB to throw the ball a ton so much as they're asking for our QB to be more aggressive with the opportunities he's given. Russell Wilson has a great balance of aggression and risk aversion.

Inexcusable why? If the defense is that good, and Wilson could do it with the efficiency/results of Rodgers or luck, what's the problem?

**Easy 6** · 06-21-2015, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThaVirus

And how much of that is based on Wilson's abilities? You can admit that he's got a more accurate deep ball that he's also more willing to throw? You can also likely admit that he's faster, more agile and better at extending plays in/around the pocket?

If you gave Alex Smith their Doug Baldwin, Jermaine Kearse and Luke Willson do you honestly think we'd be any better off? IMO, those guys aren't a marked improvement over Bowe, Wilson/Avery and Kelce.

The offensive line would be an improvement but most here can agree that Alex eats far too many sacks. He had a top 5 (possibly the best) offensive line in 2011 and still ate a shit ton of sacks. We'd still be looking to replace a lot of guys if we had the Hawks line.

Russell gets plenty of airtime, we've all seen his abilities multiple times... yes, better touch on the deep ball, he's no faster but IS more athletic on the move AND is much better able/willing? to throw on the move.

But my point remains that he's not sooo head and shoulders above Smith that he deserves or is worth two 1st's, and maybe never will be... he has some limitations of his own.

2014 Smith - 18 td 6 int

2014 Wilson - 20 td 7 int

See what I'm saying? they're not REMARKABLY different, even if we go ahead and say that their receivers and tight ends combined we're basically a push.

For two firsts I want a REMARKABLE difference.

Would I take him over Smith?

Yes.

Would I take him over Smith for two firsts?

No.

**Rain Man** · 06-21-2015, 03:36 PM

I think it's close. Any QB with a career rating over 95 is worth a lot, especially a young one. If you drafted him in the 1st round you'd be happy. But I can't shake the feeling that his rating is due in part to playing on a team that's strong and often playing with a lead. If he had gone to a bad team I'm not sure that he'd be so well regarded. I answered no, but I think he's worth more than a single 1st.

CarlPeterson_fan · 06-21-2015, 03:37 PM

Wow! Eight people would do it! I wonder what those same people feel about the 2 2nds for Smith? Seattle is winning in spite of him. Not because of him. No way you give up 2 firsts for Wilson. Not on your life!

ThaVirus · 06-21-2015, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

Inexcusable why? If the defense is that good, and Wilson could do it with the efficiency/results of Rodgers or luck, what's the problem?

Because airing it out is far riskier than handing it off. Risking batted passes, tipped passes, interceptions, incompletions, clock stoppage, sack, sack/strip, QB injury, etc. all for what? To possibly blow your opponent out by three TDs instead of a comfortable 10 point win?

The running game is far friendlier to a defense than the passing game.

jd1020 · 06-21-2015, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarlPeterson_fan

Wow! Eight people would do it! I wonder what those same people feel about the 2 2nds for Smith? Seattle is winning in spite of him. Not because of him. No way you give up 2 firsts for Wilson. Not on your life!

Wilson helps his team more than Smith by a long way. Wilson throws to a tune of nearly 8 YPA and has NEVER had a season with less than 20 TDs. Alex throws for <7 YPA and has 1 season with 20 TDs. Last year, Wilson ran for 25% of the yards Alex threw for.

O.city · 06-21-2015, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThaVirus

Because airing it out is far riskier than handing it off. Risking batted passes, tipped passes, interceptions, incompletions, clock stoppage, sack, sack/strip, QB injury, etc. all for what? To possibly blow your opponent out by three TDs instead of a comfortable 10 point win?

The running game is far friendlier to a defense than the passing game.

It also carries far more reward. More points, quicker points, bigger plays etc.

More reward for more points would equal more wins.

ROYC75 · 06-21-2015, 04:06 PM

I can plug in just about any starting # 1 NFL QB and Seattle wins with the weapons and D they have so for the sake of not arguing lets leave all backups & or # 2 QB's out of this discussion.

The answer to my the question ? No! Just too much of a price to pay and not have a complete team around him or leaving yourself strapped with no cash to play your current players since Wilson has it all tied up.

Hammock Parties · 06-21-2015, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Easy 6

Would I take him over Smith for two firsts?

No.

You're so stupid.

The Chiefs need a R1 QB anyway, so why not spend an extra first for a guy who is:

1. Proven.

2. Can actually throw the ball down the field.

3. Is far younger than Smith.

milkman · 06-21-2015, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ROYC75

I can plug in just about any starting # 1 NFL QB and Seattle wins with the weapons and D they have so for the sake of not arguing lets leave all backups & or # 2 QB's out of this discussion.

The answer to my the question ? No! Just too much of a price to pay and not have a complete team around him or leaving yourself strapped with no cash to play your current players since Wilson has it all tied up.

No, you can't.

Wilson doesn't put up big numbers, but he makes big plays when the situation demands it more than just about any QB in the league today.

The only QB in the NFL today who is equal to or better at making plays when protection breaks down is Aaron Rodgers.

This ****ing ridiculous idea that "any" QB would win as much, is just a myth.

Valiant · 06-21-2015, 04:12 PM

No, we do not have the finances for it. We are already paying too much for gone players. Then add Alex and couple other guys to make it work would gut the team for a few years unless we landed every 2nd round pick into a probowl starter on offense..

Sadly we are stuck with this team for 2-3 more years.. I will give you some insight, it will look like last years..

If we did not give Alex the contract then yes.

**Easy 6** · 06-21-2015, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThaVirus

...they're asking for our QB to be more aggressive with the opportunities he's given. Russell Wilson has a great balance of aggression and risk aversion.

Wouldn't argue with a single word of that, that's why in a gimme scenario I'm taking Wilson every single time... but not for two firsts.

He's just not THAT much better, two firsts is deadly serious stuff... just look at Ditka giving away the farm for Williams... awesome back, but worth all of that?

****.

NO.

View Poll Results: Is Wilson worth two first round draft choices?
Yes	56	43.41%
No	73	56.59%
Voters: 129. You may not vote on this poll

06-21-2015, 11:57 AM
Discuss Thrower "You like to drink?" Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: "I like to drink." Casino cash: $-230000	Two 1st round picks for Russell Wilson in '16 and '17 or '17 and '18 Clayton on show seems to hint that SEA would be open to non-exclusive Tag for RW in 2016- seems surprising but SEA will study all avenues — DAVIS HSU (@DavisHsuSeattle) June 20, 2015 Do you sign the offer sheet if the Seahawks non-exclusively tag Russell Wilson? Pole cumming.
Posts: 45,215

06-21-2015, 03:36 PM	#51
Rain Man Seize life. Be an ermine. Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: My house Casino cash: $-532449 VARSITY	I think it's close. Any QB with a career rating over 95 is worth a lot, especially a young one. If you drafted him in the 1st round you'd be happy. But I can't shake the feeling that his rating is due in part to playing on a team that's strong and often playing with a lead. If he had gone to a bad team I'm not sure that he'd be so well regarded. I answered no, but I think he's worth more than a single 1st. __________________ Active fan of the greatest team in NFL history.
Posts: 145,331

06-21-2015, 03:37 PM	#52
CarlPeterson_fan Banned Join Date: Apr 2010 Casino cash: $10006490	Wow! Eight people would do it! I wonder what those same people feel about the 2 2nds for Smith? Seattle is winning in spite of him. Not because of him. No way you give up 2 firsts for Wilson. Not on your life!
Posts: 84

06-21-2015, 04:06 PM	#56
ROYC75 Time For Your Wake Up Call !!! Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Barn Yard Casino cash: $2277400	I can plug in just about any starting # 1 NFL QB and Seattle wins with the weapons and D they have so for the sake of not arguing lets leave all backups & or # 2 QB's out of this discussion. The answer to my the question ? No! Just too much of a price to pay and not have a complete team around him or leaving yourself strapped with no cash to play your current players since Wilson has it all tied up. __________________ Our society is run by insane people for insane objectives. I think we're being run by maniacs for maniacal ends and I think I'm liable to be put away as insane for expressing that. That's what's insane about it. John Lennon
Posts: 37,943

06-21-2015, 04:12 PM	#59
Valiant Valiant 'The Thread Killer' Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Kansas City Casino cash: $4562380	No, we do not have the finances for it. We are already paying too much for gone players. Then add Alex and couple other guys to make it work would gut the team for a few years unless we landed every 2nd round pick into a probowl starter on offense.. Sadly we are stuck with this team for 2-3 more years.. I will give you some insight, it will look like last years.. If we did not give Alex the contract then yes.
Posts: 18,552