"Alex Smith makes your defense better"

[ViperVisor]

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By

The players I gave are examples that fit your parameters. Roethlisberger was 23 years old when he had a QB rating of 98.6, and about a 2:1 TD:INT ratio, in 2005, and he helped his team to a Super Bowl win. ViperVisor's already shown himself to be a complete ****ing idiot. There's no need for you to join him in that.

I'm not going to play the disqualify game with you. It's embarrassing that you're even trying it.

That is an outlier. That is the point. It's very rare they cobbled together an offense, the QB grinded it out and it worked to win games. Win in the playoffs and Win a Super Bowl.

They won reg season games with Ben passing 93 177 173 149 135

Carson Palmer blows out his knee to open the playoff game
Game saving tackle on the fumble @ Indy
Roethlisberger's lame to say the least SB game is forgotten

It's a war of attrition to win it all in the NFL. It's harder without a great QB. It's harderest when you add to scoops of lame WRs and Pass Blocking on top of that.

It's pretty obvious that is the crap Reid and Alex Smith were dealing with in 2014. The off-season made it even more obvious in what was done to change that.

Changing Alex Smith isn't happening.
Let's see what happens when a non great QB is givin a decent shot because he isn't sabotaged by a lame group of targets and a piss poor OL.

Super Bowl? I doubt it. But that's life in the NFL for most teams most.

[The Franchise]

Exactly how are you quantifying that an offensive line or wide receiver group is "shit"?

[ThaVirus]

Originally Posted by Pestilence

Exactly how are you quantifying that an offensive line or wide receiver group is "shit"?

His personal opinion, which keeps flip-flopping unsurprisingly.

He continues to ask for a QB with bottom 5 WRs and then cites TEs to help fit his narrative.

[The Franchise]

Originally Posted by ThaVirus

His personal opinion, which keeps flip-flopping unsurprisingly.

He continues to ask for a QB with bottom 5 WRs and then cites TEs to help fit his narrative.

It doesn't matter. He'll just continue to claim that Dwayne Bowe was the absolute worst WR in the league and incapable of doing anything good on the field.

[Sandy Vagina]

Originally Posted by ThaVirus

His personal opinion, which keeps flip-flopping unsurprisingly.

He continues to ask for a QB with bottom 5 WRs and then cites TEs to help fit his narrative.

The TE added for Ben wasn't even necessary.. just threw it in to point out another good option he had.

[BigCatDaddy]

Originally Posted by Sandy Cheeks

The TE added for Ben wasn't even necessary.. just threw it in to point out another good option he had.

As long as you are cool throwing in JC also. Hate to not be consistant.

[Sandy Vagina]

Originally Posted by BigCatDaddy

As long as you are cool throwing in JC also. Hate to not be consistant.

LOL, nah.. not leaving room for you to use your evasive maneuvers.

Keep it just OL and WR then. Again, I just adding that TE for point of additional support for Ben, but it did nothing to really alter anything about what we are digging for.

Ben still had good WR weapons.. so I asked dude if he should really be included.

[Sandy Vagina]

Originally Posted by Pestilence

Exactly how are you quantifying that an offensive line or wide receiver group is "shit"?

Granted, these things can be tough to nail down as exact. But if everyone is honest and not forcing agendas, it's not that difficult to look and assess who had top, mid, and bottom tier WR and OL groups.

Guys, I know this is uncommon for CP, but this really is meant as a civil discussion into whether QBs (and which ones) have played at a high level with shit for OL and WR.

I can't think of many... maybe not any.. that really do. Even if we were to force a few names that kind of work? That's a start, albeit a short list that may just strengthen my suspicion of how rare it can be. So if people want to go into it, great. If it's easier and convenient to just not, and leave it at some trifling insult? Hey, go with that.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Grown men changing team allegiances is as creepy as Pat fans posting on a Chief board. It makes ZERO sense.

[Sandy Vagina]

Originally Posted by Pasta Giant Meatball

Grown men changing team allegiances is as creepy as Pat fans posting on a Chief board. It makes ZERO sense.

Copied and pasted, so I never again have to type it.

I have been a "fan" of the 49ers for decades, and still am to a lesser degree.
I signed no contract to be a "fan".
I made no blood pact with the organization.
I swore no allegiances to a family member pushing them onto me as a child.
I have no ties to SF, and have never even been to the WC, except to fly over to Hawaii.
I simply liked the team, and still to this day do.
I watch most of their games still.. but over the years, have steadily lost some of that enthusiasm.

As fellow anonymous members of a forum, I don’t see why anyone should care about where and why I hang my fandom onto the Chiefs and wish them success. You should simply be thankful that your team is relevant again, and even has "fans" that support them.

A grown man should be able to freely step in and out of any situation that either pleases him or displeases. Over the last two years, I have grown quite fond of the Chiefs, and much less so of the 49ers. I always rather liked the Chiefs anyway, and enjoyed watching Montana play for them. I can think of no other roster that has added or already had so many interesting and exciting players. I follow every aspect, and it’s not all about the QB.

If you happen to have some irrational devotion to the team… due to geography, family sentiments, blood pacts, etc… that’s your business, and I’d not judge you for it. I see no reason that this can not be reciprocated.

You can read it, wipe your ass with it... whatever ya like. If you're the decent type though, maybe you can just understand and deal with it better now.

signed,

creepy.

[ThaVirus]

Andrew Luck, Philip Rivers, Russell Wilson, Tom Brady, Carson Palmer, Cam Newton, and Ryan Tannehill.

[jd1020]

"The best defense is a good offense."

[Sandy Vagina]

Originally Posted by ThaVirus

Andrew Luck, Philip Rivers, Russell Wilson, Tom Brady, Carson Palmer, Cam Newton, and Ryan Tannehill.

Pretty sure all of these are invalid. This is as specific as you are capable of getting? Throw some names out with exact yrs, WR groups, OL, something!

copy/paste... because I am not typing this out again either..

I think it's fair to say that Rivers, in the last 2 years, has been close to elite, if not elite. OL suckage? yes.. can't argue that. WR suckage? Man... I don't think we can say he has bottom 5 WRs. Keenan Allen is a badass, and better than Bowe.. Malcolm Floyd is a very solid vet.. and Eddie Royal is easily better than Avery. Looks like Rivers checked down a ton to Woodhead also in 2013 to get him 76 receptions in. RBs aside though..

Allen, Floyd, and Royal... Were they really a poor trio? I don't think so.

So then, Rivers is eliminated from the short list, and then there were two.

Andrew Luck.. generally referred to as a once in a decade type of QB. Okay, let's just run with it anyway...

First, I'd say that T.Y. Hilton is an incredible WR weapon. He alone pushes the team above bottom 5/[inappropriate/removed] WR corps. Then add Reggie Wayne, Nicks, and Moncrief... and no way can anyone reasonably say his 2014 WRs are bottom 5/[inappropriate/removed]. OL ranked on the downside of middle-of-pack.. but doesn't matter... WRs alone not bottom 5/[inappropriate/removed].

Why no mention of Luck's 2013 year? why bother? his stats were very Alex-like. 60%.. 23 TDs / 9 INTs / 3800 yds / 87 rating... and he still had Hilton and Wayne (half season injury).

So it is very reasonable to take Luck off the list.

Now down to one. Russell Wilson.

This is as close as it gets. RW did not have a good OL for pass pro. bottom 5? not quite that bad.. but it wasn't good. WRs... not good. Bottom 5? yeah okay. I would say yes. So let's put the WRs and OL as bottom 5.. it's close enough.

So we have a real, legit name on the list.

How bout them numbers?

3400 pass yds.. 20 TDs.. 7 INTs... 63%.. 95 rating.. a top defense and RB..

Very similar. Difference is.. RW has elite mobility to extend plays.. and is far more willing to chuck the deep passes. Fair to say.

So even though he has [inappropriate/removed] WRs and OLs.. his rare mobility and brass balls allows him to do what? put up very Alex-like numbers. They do things in a different way.. but with similar production all the same.

So does that mean he should remain on a list that is presented to show him as a QB that functions on a high level despite bottom 5/[inappropriate/removed] OL and WR groups? Apparently so..since he was added onto the list.

So if Smith has similar production and functionality as RW... he must be functioning on a high level despite bottom 5/[inappropriate/removed] OLs and WRs.

[The Franchise]

2014:

Moncrief - 444 yards and 3 TDs
Nicks - 405 yards and 4 TDs
Wayne - 779 yards and 2 TDs

[Sandy Vagina]

Originally Posted by Pestilence

2014:

Moncrief - 444 yards and 3 TDs
Nicks - 405 yards and 4 TDs
Wayne - 779 yards and 2 TDs

And a top 10 WR named T.Y. Hilton is missing from this because? He's pretty outstanding. You should check him out.