****OFFICIAL Royals at Blue Jays GDT 08/02****

[RealSNR]

Time to take a catheter and shove it up their Dickey!

Game start: 12:07 central

KC: Volquez (10-5, 3.21)
TOR: Dickey (5-10, 4.27)

Go Royals!


Royals
Escobar
Zobrist
Cain
Hosmer
Morales
Perez
Rios
Cuthbert
Infante

Blue Jays
Tulowitzki
Donaldson
Bautista
Encarnacion
Colabello
Martin
Pillar
Goins
Revere

[eDave]

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

Thank god we have Marco Estrada to police things.

\

It's like it's almost part of baseball.

[KC_Connection]

Originally Posted by tk13

Then, less than a week later, an Orioles rule V pick threw behind Bautista, and he got the guy back by hitting a home run, doing a Jack Parkman bat flip and mouthing his way around the bases.
Posted via Mobile Device

That was epic.

[KC_Connection]

Originally Posted by eDave

It's like it's almost part of baseball.

And it's almost like the Jays instigated that situation.

[Hootie]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

#5) If watching the games means so much, how can so many of you be so consistently wrong about so much? Too many of you have been infected by Hootie strains of dumb****ery: invent a narrative, cherry pick stats, ignore any evidence to the contrary.

Please.

Give me examples of where I have been wrong about the Royals this year. Hint, you won't find many.

On the contrary, guy, you're the one who conceded the division for the Cardinals after losing a July series to the Pirates ... you know ... with a 2.5 game lead ... set your O/U wins at 92 at the same time (brilliant!) ... and bet me Volquez would be terrible this year, because, you know, Fangraphs said so.

So you're batting 1.000, let me tell ya!

[tk13]

Also, apparently there's a long running feud between the Jays and Orioles, especially between Bautista and Darren O'Day. They have a few episodes over the last couple years. They apparently had a pretty nasty series last Sept.

But don't worry, the Royals are the only team evil enough to do such a horrible thing. No other pitching staff throws at people. If only KC could learn to be as benevolent as the rest of baseball.
Posted via Mobile Device

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

I said Ventura needed to mature. He's got growing to do if he's going to reach his potential. We agree there. I've seen some try to act like that was an isolated, out of left field thing, though, that Ventura started. Not the case.

I didn't reference Ventura, though oddly I think he's now become the goat that this stuff gets hung on. Volquez has had multiple issues as well now. You speak to Samardzija being a catalyst in the White Sox incident - accurately, I'll add - but isn't that EXACTLY what Volquez was doing on Sunday? He and Cain were both out there trying to get their money's worth with Volquez definitely trying to push around and through guys to get at (I believe) Donaldson. I also believe it was Volquez that threw a haymaker in that Sox skirmish?

There's a big difference between the "thin-skin" you reference there and 'temper tantrums,' no?

I suppose. Like I said, you can quibble with my terminology and that's fair. If you think I was overstating it so be it. To me his tendency to make an issue of most HBPs constitutes a tantrum but I can see your point here. No, he's not gone off half-cocked but when you're a team leader that is constantly taking umbrage with a HBP, that's going to filter down through the team.

Most hitters at least look/glare at the pitcher. Some talk occasionally, if there's some sort of prior history. Cain doesn't always talk. He doesn't always glare. But either way... not temper tantrums.

Yeah, we're not going to reach a consensus here. I'm not gonna bite on this 'doesn't watch the games' nonsense from the others because I do. Not all of them mind you, but many (my directv gets FSKC) and I've seen Cain get hit several times; he is the most vocal of anybody I've seen this year when he gets hit.

The stuff with Samardzija started with him yelling at the Royals from the dugout during the playoff series last season. It carried over to this year, obviously. Samardzija is also a red ass. Where's the criticism of him?

Where's the criticism of Chris Sale for pounding several beers after getting sent to the showers early and then showing up at the KC clubhouse door looking for a fight?

Not a White Sox thread. But as for Sale, what he did was WHOLLY unacceptable. If I were talking with White Sox fans, I'd have spoken to it. I couldn't believe he did that and honestly MLB should've dropped the hammer harder than it did there. That said, it was post-skirmish, no? It's a bit of an ancillary point in an attempt to spread blame after the fact.

I'll give you that blame can be assigned to both place regarding the White Sox and Royals (though I certainly understand why teammates might take issue with a hitter getting drilled after the previous guy hit a HR that he treated 100 percent professionally, with no hand signs, no antics, no pimping, just a fast jog around the bases).

But making that situation all about KC is one-sided and ignores that aspect. Many have tried to do that.

I'm on a Royals thread directly addressing Royals fans who are doing the opposite - making Sunday's events all about Toronto. I think I've remained pretty civil with you on account of you doing the same. I've even noted that I get why the Royals were flummoxed by the Jays reaction. But it's the old 'brick is not a wall' axiom that I'm speaking to here. Any number of instances which are, at least to some degree, attributable to the Royals attitude is going to flow to a logical conclusion that the Royals have some attitude issues that other teams simply do not. Any instance in a vacuum isn't worth discussion (well, the Herrera thing is, but whatever), but there are now a lot of issues that have popped up.

It had not been an issue for over two months, until this weekend, when Donaldson pimped a few home runs and the team thought it had caught him stealing signs/passing signs.

I get why he was upset. It makes sense. But the reactions from guys like Gregg Zaun and Bautista in regards to the way Wolf handled it are hysterical bullshit, and those guys should recognize in hindsight they were lucky to not have Donaldson tossed then and there.

It is and then it isn't. Remember, many MANY umpires refuse to exercise judgment in those cases - if there have been warnings issued, the ump isn't going to get into intent and he's going to toss the guy. The MLB rulebook even says that umpires should grant little to no latitude at all after warnings have been issued and pitches are coming in around the head. That is a baseball culture problem to some degree - there needs to be uniformity. If as a player you expect that the next guy to get hit earns the pitcher the thumb...then it doesn't happen, you're going to be pissed. That expectation given the fact that many umpires DO treat it that way isn't an unfair one. Personally I trend towards tossing the guy. I know it's a pain that could impact the pitcher in that he's afraid to pitch inside. I know it's draconian and perhaps over the top, but it also puts a stop to this kind of thing.

As to stealing signs, ironically I had this exact conversation with a friend of mine awhile ago and I've just never bought it. It's especially comical when it gets to 'well they steal signs at home' as often applied to the Jays, as though Toronto has some guy with a flashlight under the batters eye. Yup - 400 feet away there's a guy flashing a light to give away pitch type/location. Even under the 'conventional' sign stealing gripe where the guy at 2b does it, I've not bought it. Catchers set up late enough these days that stealing signs is damn near impossible when you think about the mechanics involved. When the runner is on 2b, pitchers/catchers scramble their signs to the point that I don't think it's realistic to say that baserunners are stealing pitch type. As to location, the catcher generally sets up location right as the windup is starting. As a better you'd have to have some small, nearly imperceptible signal from a baserunner and in that period of time that the pitcher is winding up you'd have to take your eye off the pitcher, look at the baserunner and then pick the ball back up mid-delivery to get a read on spin, etc... With a runner on 2b presumably the pitcher is in the stretch so things are sped up even more.

Regardless of team, I've never thought sign stealing had merit. Do guys spend all day looking for a 'tell' on the pitcher and then divulge it? Sure they do. But man, just the timelines and mechanics involved in straight up sign stealing seem pretty farfetched. If/when it does happen, the pitching team has to almost dare the opponent not to do it. If you won't mix up your signs or have your catcher set up late, you don't get to go drilling guys. To me that's never been an acceptable reason for hitting someone. It's too vague a charge, it's damn near impossible to prove and to whatever extent it does happen its largely self-inflicted.

[ChiefsCountry]

Originally Posted by Hootie 2.0

Please.

Give me examples of where I have been wrong about the Royals this year. Hint, you won't find many.

On the contrary, guy, you're the one who conceded the division for the Cardinals after losing a July series to the Pirates ... you know ... with a 2.5 game lead ... set your O/U wins at 92 at the same time (brilliant!) ... and bet me Volquez would be terrible this year, because, you know, Fangraphs said so.

So you're batting 1.000, let me tell ya!

Grichuk is a fun one to watch the arguments about since he is not a sabermetric friendly player.

[Hootie]

...not only that, but when I was one of the only people on this board propping Ned for batting Moose 2nd ... saying that it could be the confidence he needed to finally get off to a good start ... Hamas was right there telling everyone how STUPID it was and blah blah blah ... because, you know, he reads fangraphs

...as Moose was hitting for .330 through May

but again ... tell me how reading fangraphs is a better way of formulating opinion on a team or players than actually watching 90% of the games?

I bet I have watched 5 X more Royals games than Hamas or DJ ... and that's because I simply have nothing better to do.

Yet they know more about the Royals than I do. Classic.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by beer bacon

I thought the Cards were the enforcers of baseball's unwritten rules?

In fairness, it's the Braves.

[KC_Connection]

Originally Posted by tk13

Also, apparently there's a long running feud between the Jays and Orioles, especially between Bautista and Darren O'Day. They have a few episodes over the last couple years. They apparently had a pretty nasty series last Sept.

O'Day struck out Bautista once and barked at him. Bautista hit a HR off him the next time they faced and barked right back. Since then, O'Day has thrown at him multiple times.

But don't worry, the Royals are the only team evil enough to do such a horrible thing. No other pitching staff throws at people. If only KC could learn to be as benevolent as the rest of baseball.
Posted via Mobile Device

The Royals are hardly evil. But do they have a significant history of instigating situations like this (and did they instigate Sunday's incident)? Absolutely.

[Hootie]

I'm not kidding you ... 'Hamas' and DJ literally think they could manage the Cardinals better than Matheny. No joke.

67-38

.640 win percentage

...and they do it all DESPITE Matheny

Most ridiculous, stupid fan base in any sport. Remember, they ALL hated LaRussa, too.

All of them.

[Dartgod]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Blah, blah, blah, blah...

So yeah, when are you going to own up to the fact that you were talking out your ass with this gem?

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

This is the shit the Royals have been involved in ALL SEASON...

[DeezNutz]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Catchers set up late enough these days that stealing signs is damn near impossible when you think about the mechanics involved. When the runner is on 2b, pitchers/catchers scramble their signs to the point that I don't think it's realistic to say that baserunners are stealing pitch type. As to location, the catcher generally sets up location right as the windup is starting. As a better you'd have to have some small, nearly imperceptible signal from a baserunner and in that period of time that the pitcher is winding up you'd have to take your eye off the pitcher, look at the baserunner and then pick the ball back up mid-delivery to get a read on spin, etc... With a runner on 2b presumably the pitcher is in the stretch so things are sped up even more.

Regardless of team, I've never thought sign stealing had merit. Do guys spend all day looking for a 'tell' on the pitcher and then divulge it? Sure they do. But man, just the timelines and mechanics involved in straight up sign stealing seem pretty farfetched. If/when it does happen, the pitching team has to almost dare the opponent not to do it. If you won't mix up your signs or have your catcher set up late, you don't get to go drilling guys. To me that's never been an acceptable reason for hitting someone. It's too vague a charge, it's damn near impossible to prove and to whatever extent it does happen its largely self-inflicted.

Both of the bolded are not accurate.

[KC_Connection]

Originally Posted by Hootie 2.0

I'm not kidding you ... 'Hamas' and DJ literally think they could manage the Cardinals better than Matheny. No joke.

67-38

.640 win percentage

...and they do it all DESPITE Matheny

Most ridiculous, stupid fan base in any sport. Remember, they ALL hated LaRussa, too.

All of them.

Matheny isn't good, though. Watching him manage games almost reminds me of Ned Yost before he was handed a virtually infallible bullpen.

[Pablo]

Originally Posted by Hootie 2.0

I'm not kidding you ... 'Hamas' and DJ literally think they could manage the Cardinals better than Matheny. No joke.

67-38

.640 win percentage

...and they do it all DESPITE Matheny

Most ridiculous, stupid fan base in any sport. Remember, they ALL hated LaRussa, too.

All of them.

Basically Boston Midwest.