Chiefs Andy Reid, John Dorsey under pressure with Chiefs' 1-4 start - Page 4

oaklandhater · 10-13-2015, 12:27 PM

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300...hiefs-14-start

KANSAS CITY, Mo. -- The last remnants of Andy Reid's honeymoon in Kansas City officially ended on Sunday afternoon. The head coach lost whatever benefit of the doubt he had left once the lowly (and wounded) Chicago Bears scored an 18-17 victory over the Chiefs in Arrowhead Stadium. That loss wasn't the only bad one Reid has suffered in the past month, but it was a defeat that buried hope that his squad could turn around what quickly has become an incredibly disappointing season.

At 1-4, the Chiefs are just about invisible in the playoff picture. But the bigger issue revolves around Reid -- and his sidekick, general manager John Dorsey -- moving forward. This was supposed to be the year when it all came together for Reid in Kansas City, when two years of coaching and personnel moves gave birth to a team poised to claim the AFC West crown. All the Chiefs have at this point is an inept offense, an even worse defense and a substantial void created by the torn ACL that ended the season of Pro Bowl running back Jamaal Charles on Sunday.

Every game, all season

Even worse, there are no easy fixes for what ails Kansas City. When asked how the Chiefs can improve, Reid could only offer the standard reply coaches give when they are running out of answers.

"We all need to pick it up," Reid told reporters during his Monday press conference. "You have to raise the level [of performance] and you have to do it right now, right now. That's how it works when you're 1-4. That's how it works."

It's bizarre to see Reid stuck in this situation, because his reputation suggested he would work wonders in Kansas City. That franchise was in disarray when he arrived in 2013, largely because former general manager Scott Pioli had run it into the ground. Reid brought instant credibility and a strong résumé forged during an impressive run with the Philadelphia Eagles. He had taken that team to one Super Bowl and five NFC Championship Games -- while winning six division titles -- in 14 seasons.

Reid excited the Kansas City fan base by inheriting a Chiefs squad that won just two games in 2012 and guiding it to 11 wins and a wild-card spot in his first season. There also wasn't too much grumbling when the Chiefs finished 9-7 last year, largely because people expected lesser results from a much tougher schedule. Year 3 under Reid is what everybody pointed to as the true litmus test for his reign. This was supposed to be when we all would see how far Reid and Dorsey had come in executing their vision for this franchise.

Well, there is no sense of a clear vision in Kansas City anymore. A nice opening-day win over the lousy Houston Texans has been followed by an embarrassing string of defeats. The Chiefs turned the ball over five times in front of the home folks during a 31-24 Thursday night loss to Denver. They looked uninspired in a 38-28 thrashing in Green Bay that wasn't nearly as close as the score suggests. The Chiefs also only managed seven field goals in a 36-21 loss at Cincinnati. And then came the kicker last Sunday, when Bears quarterback Jay Cutler rallied his lifeless team from a 14-point deficit -- on the road -- to secure Chicago's second win of the season.

As has been his style, Reid's been quick to point the finger at himself, with his team playing worse in each passing week. What is becoming more apparent is that his biggest challenge will be keeping this team focused and committed as this season continues.

"There is a time that, obviously, your character is tested, right?" Reid said. "So there are not a lot of people patting you on the back and saying how good you're doing. You've got to reach a little deeper and pull together and good things can happen when you do that."

Actually, good things are likelier to happen when there's plenty of talent to help right the ship. That's the first thing to realize about what Reid is now facing in Kansas City: This team isn't nearly as strong in the personnel department as some (including this writer) believed going into this season. Quarterback Alex Smith has faced his own share of criticism -- both for his lack of aggressiveness downfield and his inability to impact games -- but there are several other issues plaguing the Chiefs. The most noteworthy is that Smith is playing behind an offensive line that is making a strong case for being the worst in the NFL.

If that's not bad enough, a defense that seemingly had the potential to be a top-five unit has allowed 28.6 points per game. Unlike the offense, this isn't a group lacking in players that arrived with high expectations. Six members of that defense were selected in the first round of the NFL draft, while five have appeared in at least one Pro Bowl. They should be doing for Kansas City what Denver's defense is doing for that franchise -- setting an undeniable tone and making enough plays to win games.

The scary part for Reid is that it's reaching a point where he will have to make some extremely tough decisions. The Chiefs have invested plenty in Smith -- they traded two high-value picks to acquire him from the San Francisco 49ers two years ago and also gave him a four-year, $68-million extension in 2014 -- but he's played poorly enough lately to wonder if Reid really can stick with him long-term. Defensive coordinator Bob Sutton also has had enough ups and downs that his future should be uncertain. He's shown an inability to adjust at times and his defense rarely steps up when facing a quarterback who isn't on the level of a Brian Hoyer or Ryan Fitzpatrick.

The work Dorsey has done in the front office is more mystifying. Pioli was a disaster overall as a general manager, but he deserves credit for supplying Reid with some of his best players, including nose tackle Dontari Poe, outside linebacker Justin Houston and safety Eric Berry. Other key performers -- Charles, inside linebacker Derrick Johnson and outside linebacker Tamba Hali -- arrived when Carl Peterson was the team's general manager. Aside from rookie cornerback Marcus Peters and emerging tight end Travis Kelce, Dorsey hasn't unearthed any impact players in the draft. Hell, his first two first-round picks (right tackle Eric Fisher, the No. 1 overall selection in the 2013 draft, and outside linebacker Dee Ford) have yet to do anything memorable.

Together We Make Football

It's those facts that critics are looking at now when assessing the Chiefs. There's just as much talk about Reid's reputation for mismanaging the clock at critical moments and how unprepared this team looked for both of its prime-time games (against Denver and Green Bay). Reid has been around long enough to know this comes with the territory. He faced plenty of tough times in Philadelphia and somehow managed to pull through when other coaches might have been axed.

Still, this is starting to feel a little different in Kansas City. Reid is starting to look less like the man who made Philadelphia a perennial contender and more like yet another talented head coach who can't duplicate his success with a second franchise (a group that includes George Seifert, Mike Shanahan and Dennis Green). It's also becoming harder to recall the good vibes that followed Reid to Kansas City, when he arrived as a savior blessed with both experience and answers. Sadly, as this season continues on, he's only creating more questions about his current reign moving forward.

**bevischief** · 10-13-2015, 02:06 PM

At least with ice fishing drinking is involved.

Reerun_KC · 10-13-2015, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcellus

Who here is defending Reid? I havent read a single post on here in his defense for this season.

Why do you think people are making excuses for him?

Why? So they can make Alex the fall guy. This way we will get a new QB and Reid will all of a sudden fix all of his issues.

The fact this thread is about Reid and Dorsey and people are still blaming Smith for the sun coming up....

Smith is so irrelevant in the grand scheme of things when it comes to the people leading and building this team.

**Rausch** · 10-13-2015, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reerun_KC

Why? So they can make Alex the fall guy. This way we will get a new QB and Reid will all of a sudden fix all of his issues.

The only reason I want Smith thrown out the window first is so Reid can land on top of him afterwards...

oaklandhater · 10-13-2015, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reerun_KC

Why? So they can make Alex the fall guy. This way we will get a new QB and Reid will all of a sudden fix all of his issues.

The fact this thread is about Reid and Dorsey and people are still blaming Smith for the sun coming up....

Smith is so irrelevant in the grand scheme of things when it comes to the people leading and building this team.

I think most people want Reid to tear in to Smith Like Singletary did when he was his coach

Q: What happened when you were going to put Carr in but didn't?
Singletary: At that time I was contemplating putting David Carr(notes) in the game. And after talking to Alex, decided not to.
Q: What did he say?
Singletary: I'm not going to go through that. It's [exchanges] we had on the sideline and it's personal.
Q: Were you mad at him?
Singletary: Was I angry? (The question seemed pretty clear.)
Q: You looked animated.
Singletary: The bottom line is it's something that we talked about and I'd rather keep it personal. (Still didn't answer the clear question that was clarified.)
Q: Did you change your mind because of what he said or the way he said it?
Singletary: What he said.
Q: How do you feel he responded?
Singletary: He went in and scored.
Q: Are you feeling better about him now?
Singletary: I leave this game feeling disappointed that I think a pretty decent football team is 0-5. Disappointed for them because we put ourselves in this situation and only we can get ourselves out.
Q: You thought about going with Carr because of what? To get Alex out of there?
Singletary: I thought at the moment I really wanted to see what his response would be. More than anything, in a situation like that, a quarterback that has anything in him is going to have something to say about that. We're in the situation, how do we get out of the situation? Hopefully you're part of the solution.
And I think in the conversation that we had, I felt he felt he was part of the solution. And we went forward from there.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shu...urn=nfl-276102

Reerun_KC · 10-13-2015, 02:24 PM

If Reid is going to tear into anyone is should be himself. He is solely responsible for smiths play and the team being unprepared.

Him yelling at smith would be ironically stupid.

Dayze · 10-13-2015, 02:27 PM

Reid isn't/won't tear into anything other than a bag of Lays.

he's comatose on gamedays.. he shows zero emotion either positive or negative.
so it's no surprise to me that the player show the same.

**bevischief** · 10-13-2015, 02:30 PM

Just go to the glue factory.

Prison Bitch · 10-13-2015, 02:32 PM

Fat Andy can't work his magic without a dominant Def. his career has been a giant ruse

oaklandhater · 10-13-2015, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dayze

Reid isn't/won't tear into anything other than a bag of Lays.

he's comatose on gamedays.. he shows zero emotion either positive or negative.
so it's no surprise to me that the player show the same.

Dude really should retire his heart isn't in the game anymore.

ThaVirus · 10-13-2015, 02:45 PM

If we're able to get up out from under Smith and Daniel's contracts we'd have no trouble keeping our young talent.

With that $20 mil off the cap we'd need to throw it at OL and WR. It's realistic to expect an 11 year vet to overcome deficiencies around him but not so for a rookie.

chiefzilla1501 · 10-13-2015, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reerun_KC

Why? So they can make Alex the fall guy. This way we will get a new QB and Reid will all of a sudden fix all of his issues.

The fact this thread is about Reid and Dorsey and people are still blaming Smith for the sun coming up....

Smith is so irrelevant in the grand scheme of things when it comes to the people leading and building this team.

Smith is the biggest problem.

Reid and Dorsey aren't going anywhere. That's why nobody's bothering with this. But it feels like there's enough pressure to push Smith out the door even if that means waiting until 2016 to draft a QB.

Reid and Dorsey still have time to correct the ship. Alex is done. Dorsey can force reids hand on defensive coordinator and QB. We have the talent to become a good defense. We have the offensive talent to be much better on offense, and we've seen reids offense in Philly be much better. I would rather see Reid out, but if I'm picking between the two, no ****ing doubt I believe Reid can win without Smith vs Smith winning without Reid.

oaklandhater · 10-13-2015, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Smith is the biggest problem.

Reid and Dorsey aren't going anywhere. That's why nobody's bothering with this. But it feels like there's enough pressure to push Smith out the door even if that means waiting until 2016 to draft a QB.

Reid and Dorsey still have time to correct the ship. Alex is done. Dorsey can force reids hand on defensive coordinator and QB. We have the talent to become a good defense. We have the offensive talent to be much better on offense, and we've seen reids offense in Philly be much better. I would rather see Reid out, but if I'm picking between the two, no ****ing doubt I believe Reid can win without Smith vs Smith winning without Reid.

The fact that those two numb nuts gave Alex big money is enough to think that Clark is gonna be mighty pissed if we go 1-15 or 2-14

chiefzilla1501 · 10-13-2015, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oaklandhater

The fact that those two numb nuts gave Alex big money is enough to think that Clark is gonna be mighty pissed if we go 1-15 or 2-14

Realistically I'd be stunned if Dorsey or Reid are under any hot seat. Knowing hunts history. If we're lucky, Clark at least forces Dorsey and reids hand on the coaching staff and the QB.

ThaVirus · 10-13-2015, 03:03 PM

We're not going 1-15. That's not the Chiefs way.

No, no.

We'll string together a couple win streaks to settle out around 7-9.

That's the Chiefs way.

Reerun_KC · 10-13-2015, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Smith is the biggest problem.

Reid and Dorsey aren't going anywhere. That's why nobody's bothering with this. But it feels like there's enough pressure to push Smith out the door even if that means waiting until 2016 to draft a QB.

Reid and Dorsey still have time to correct the ship. Alex is done. Dorsey can force reids hand on defensive coordinator and QB. We have the talent to become a good defense. We have the offensive talent to be much better on offense, and we've seen reids offense in Philly be much better. I would rather see Reid out, but if I'm picking between the two, no ****ing doubt I believe Reid can win without Smith vs Smith winning without Reid.

Reid is a bigger problem than Smith, no matter if Smith is here or not, Reid will always be Reid.

Plus seeing them draft Fisher, Ford and extend Smith doesn't scream confidence for the future.

Making Smith the fall guy and drafting a OL in the 1st will make a shit ton of people happy.

Some people strive for success, others support and root for status quo.

10-13-2015, 12:27 PM
oaklandhater future chiefs fans Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: oakland california Casino cash: $5808993	Andy Reid, John Dorsey under pressure with Chiefs' 1-4 start http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300...hiefs-14-start KANSAS CITY, Mo. -- The last remnants of Andy Reid's honeymoon in Kansas City officially ended on Sunday afternoon. The head coach lost whatever benefit of the doubt he had left once the lowly (and wounded) Chicago Bears scored an 18-17 victory over the Chiefs in Arrowhead Stadium. That loss wasn't the only bad one Reid has suffered in the past month, but it was a defeat that buried hope that his squad could turn around what quickly has become an incredibly disappointing season. At 1-4, the Chiefs are just about invisible in the playoff picture. But the bigger issue revolves around Reid -- and his sidekick, general manager John Dorsey -- moving forward. This was supposed to be the year when it all came together for Reid in Kansas City, when two years of coaching and personnel moves gave birth to a team poised to claim the AFC West crown. All the Chiefs have at this point is an inept offense, an even worse defense and a substantial void created by the torn ACL that ended the season of Pro Bowl running back Jamaal Charles on Sunday. Every game, all season Even worse, there are no easy fixes for what ails Kansas City. When asked how the Chiefs can improve, Reid could only offer the standard reply coaches give when they are running out of answers. "We all need to pick it up," Reid told reporters during his Monday press conference. "You have to raise the level [of performance] and you have to do it right now, right now. That's how it works when you're 1-4. That's how it works." It's bizarre to see Reid stuck in this situation, because his reputation suggested he would work wonders in Kansas City. That franchise was in disarray when he arrived in 2013, largely because former general manager Scott Pioli had run it into the ground. Reid brought instant credibility and a strong résumé forged during an impressive run with the Philadelphia Eagles. He had taken that team to one Super Bowl and five NFC Championship Games -- while winning six division titles -- in 14 seasons. Reid excited the Kansas City fan base by inheriting a Chiefs squad that won just two games in 2012 and guiding it to 11 wins and a wild-card spot in his first season. There also wasn't too much grumbling when the Chiefs finished 9-7 last year, largely because people expected lesser results from a much tougher schedule. Year 3 under Reid is what everybody pointed to as the true litmus test for his reign. This was supposed to be when we all would see how far Reid and Dorsey had come in executing their vision for this franchise. Well, there is no sense of a clear vision in Kansas City anymore. A nice opening-day win over the lousy Houston Texans has been followed by an embarrassing string of defeats. The Chiefs turned the ball over five times in front of the home folks during a 31-24 Thursday night loss to Denver. They looked uninspired in a 38-28 thrashing in Green Bay that wasn't nearly as close as the score suggests. The Chiefs also only managed seven field goals in a 36-21 loss at Cincinnati. And then came the kicker last Sunday, when Bears quarterback Jay Cutler rallied his lifeless team from a 14-point deficit -- on the road -- to secure Chicago's second win of the season. As has been his style, Reid's been quick to point the finger at himself, with his team playing worse in each passing week. What is becoming more apparent is that his biggest challenge will be keeping this team focused and committed as this season continues. "There is a time that, obviously, your character is tested, right?" Reid said. "So there are not a lot of people patting you on the back and saying how good you're doing. You've got to reach a little deeper and pull together and good things can happen when you do that." Actually, good things are likelier to happen when there's plenty of talent to help right the ship. That's the first thing to realize about what Reid is now facing in Kansas City: This team isn't nearly as strong in the personnel department as some (including this writer) believed going into this season. Quarterback Alex Smith has faced his own share of criticism -- both for his lack of aggressiveness downfield and his inability to impact games -- but there are several other issues plaguing the Chiefs. The most noteworthy is that Smith is playing behind an offensive line that is making a strong case for being the worst in the NFL. If that's not bad enough, a defense that seemingly had the potential to be a top-five unit has allowed 28.6 points per game. Unlike the offense, this isn't a group lacking in players that arrived with high expectations. Six members of that defense were selected in the first round of the NFL draft, while five have appeared in at least one Pro Bowl. They should be doing for Kansas City what Denver's defense is doing for that franchise -- setting an undeniable tone and making enough plays to win games. The scary part for Reid is that it's reaching a point where he will have to make some extremely tough decisions. The Chiefs have invested plenty in Smith -- they traded two high-value picks to acquire him from the San Francisco 49ers two years ago and also gave him a four-year, $68-million extension in 2014 -- but he's played poorly enough lately to wonder if Reid really can stick with him long-term. Defensive coordinator Bob Sutton also has had enough ups and downs that his future should be uncertain. He's shown an inability to adjust at times and his defense rarely steps up when facing a quarterback who isn't on the level of a Brian Hoyer or Ryan Fitzpatrick. The work Dorsey has done in the front office is more mystifying. Pioli was a disaster overall as a general manager, but he deserves credit for supplying Reid with some of his best players, including nose tackle Dontari Poe, outside linebacker Justin Houston and safety Eric Berry. Other key performers -- Charles, inside linebacker Derrick Johnson and outside linebacker Tamba Hali -- arrived when Carl Peterson was the team's general manager. Aside from rookie cornerback Marcus Peters and emerging tight end Travis Kelce, Dorsey hasn't unearthed any impact players in the draft. Hell, his first two first-round picks (right tackle Eric Fisher, the No. 1 overall selection in the 2013 draft, and outside linebacker Dee Ford) have yet to do anything memorable. Together We Make Football It's those facts that critics are looking at now when assessing the Chiefs. There's just as much talk about Reid's reputation for mismanaging the clock at critical moments and how unprepared this team looked for both of its prime-time games (against Denver and Green Bay). Reid has been around long enough to know this comes with the territory. He faced plenty of tough times in Philadelphia and somehow managed to pull through when other coaches might have been axed. Still, this is starting to feel a little different in Kansas City. Reid is starting to look less like the man who made Philadelphia a perennial contender and more like yet another talented head coach who can't duplicate his success with a second franchise (a group that includes George Seifert, Mike Shanahan and Dennis Green). It's also becoming harder to recall the good vibes that followed Reid to Kansas City, when he arrived as a savior blessed with both experience and answers. Sadly, as this season continues on, he's only creating more questions about his current reign moving forward.
Posts: 24,003

10-13-2015, 02:06 PM	#46
bevischief .... Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Somewhere Kansas Casino cash: $7729352 VARSITY	At least with ice fishing drinking is involved.
Posts: 27,771

10-13-2015, 02:24 PM	#50
Reerun_KC Banned Join Date: Aug 2005 Casino cash: $7231160	If Reid is going to tear into anyone is should be himself. He is solely responsible for smiths play and the team being unprepared. Him yelling at smith would be ironically stupid.
Posts: 1,529

10-13-2015, 02:27 PM	#51
Dayze Resident Glue Sniffer Join Date: Nov 2003 Casino cash: $1729358	Reid isn't/won't tear into anything other than a bag of Lays. he's comatose on gamedays.. he shows zero emotion either positive or negative. so it's no surprise to me that the player show the same. __________________ Life is 99% inspiration, 1% Perspiration, and 1% Attention to Detial. RIP & Godspeed: Saccoppo Lonewolf Ed Fire Me Boy
Posts: 37,460

10-13-2015, 02:30 PM	#52
bevischief .... Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Somewhere Kansas Casino cash: $7729352 VARSITY	Just go to the glue factory.
Posts: 27,771

10-13-2015, 02:32 PM	#53
Prison Bitch Rabbi Goldmann Join Date: Nov 2012 Casino cash: $5450159	Fat Andy can't work his magic without a dominant Def. his career has been a giant ruse
Posts: 87,025

10-13-2015, 02:45 PM	#55
ThaVirus Searching.. Join Date: Sep 2007 Casino cash: $-1837631	If we're able to get up out from under Smith and Daniel's contracts we'd have no trouble keeping our young talent. With that $20 mil off the cap we'd need to throw it at OL and WR. It's realistic to expect an 11 year vet to overcome deficiencies around him but not so for a rookie.
Posts: 47,041

10-13-2015, 03:03 PM	#59
ThaVirus Searching.. Join Date: Sep 2007 Casino cash: $-1837631	We're not going 1-15. That's not the Chiefs way. No, no. We'll string together a couple win streaks to settle out around 7-9. That's the Chiefs way.
Posts: 47,041