Did y'all catch Squirmin Herman's spot on ESPN about Shady?

[Buehler445]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

I don't have a preconceived notion that all free agency is expensive. But you can't rule out that if the Chiefs spent on long-term free agents, they could have easily added to those 17 - 25 contributors. It also allows you to buy lots of small contributors. Fasano, Schwartz, Vickerson, Branch, etc.... these guys were cheap, but they're not that cheap for a team trying to clean their cap up.

I don't think Herm was great at talent evaluation. Much credit goes to Kuharich and the scouts. But (LJ aside) he generally put the right guys over the field, insisted on a youth movement (right thing to do), and yes the decision to blow up the roster was absolutely correct and it was extremely ballsy.

My point all along is and always has been: there are a lot worse coaches than Herm, but I never wanted his 9-7 ceiling. But he made bold moves during the rebuild most coaches wouldn't, and they put the team in a good situation in 2009. You may not agree with the talent that was on there. But it was smart to show massive restrain in free agency vs. band-aiding. It was smart to clean the roster up from lots of bad contracts. It was smart to get your young guys out there early to sink or swim. Any reasonable GM should have taken that 2009 roster and immediately turned them into at least an 8-8 team. I truly believe that.

So he was horrible at X and O. You're comfortable with that assessment.

So he was horrible at franchise management. You're comfortable with that assessment.

So he was horrible at gameplanning/practices during the week. You're comfortable with that assessment.

You and I agree to disagree on how much actual talent was here when he was done. I'm cool with that.

You fully acknowledge that Kuharich et. al. had at least some of the responsibility for bringing the talent that ended up here in.

So you're whole argument for telling me it is absurd that he wrecked the franchise because he had the balls to play the young kids? That's it?

Wow. OK.

Herm's horrible. He wrecked the franchise.

Lots of teams have massive roster turnover without playing like 7th graders. He flubbed it up bad. But I guess kudo's for bucking the King Carl trend.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Buehler445

So he was horrible at X and O. You're comfortable with that assessment.

So he was horrible at franchise management. You're comfortable with that assessment.

So he was horrible at gameplanning/practices during the week. You're comfortable with that assessment.

He isn't as bad as haters want him to be. I don't care how talented your roster is, you don't make that many playoff games by accident. But his ceiling was 9-7 which is unacceptable to me.

You and I agree to disagree on how much actual talent was here when he was done. I'm cool with that.

You fully acknowledge that Kuharich et. al. had at least some of the responsibility for bringing the talent that ended up here in.

So you're whole argument for telling me it is absurd that he wrecked the franchise because he had the balls to play the young kids? That's it?

Wow. OK.

Yes, it's absurd to say a guy who inherited a hot mess then left the team on a clean slate "wrecked the franchise." And yes, I think it is a complete misrepresentation to say he took a playoff team and turned them into a 2-14 squad. That lets Vermeil completely off the hook and Vermeil is by far the bigger culprit for the mess between 2006-2008 than Herm was.

Herm's horrible. He wrecked the franchise.

Lots of teams have massive roster turnover without playing like 7th graders. He flubbed it up bad. But I guess kudo's for bucking the King Carl trend.

No, they don't. Not like the Chiefs had. The Chiefs had the oldest roster in football and they tried to salvage it by loading the team up with tons and tons of credit card debt. The drafting under Lynn Stiles during the Vermeil era was arguably the worst in the NFL during that time. Oldest team in football. Years of cap hell. A ridiculously shitty pipeline of young players after years and years of failed drafts. This was the perfect storm of shit.

[CoMoChief]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Because when Herm left, so did his X's and O's. If you were a terrible coach but left a good situation to your successor after you left, that's not a waste of years.

LOL what?

Regardless if you're in a "rebuilding mode", your ultimate goal as a franchise is to (every season) compete to win for a SB. Herm's teams never did that outside of backing into the playoffs in 2006. That team was a fraud standing on it's last legs from an old previous aging regime, only to completely implode in the playoffs. If you're not good enough to make the post-season dance, then at least you see progress in the team from season to season. Under Herm there was literally no progression.

Even though Herm landed a handful of good draft picks (Hali, Bowe, Charles, Flowers, Carr, Albert) his teams collectively got worse and worse each year. And that's not even remotely debatable.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by CoMoChief

LOL what?

Regardless if you're in a "rebuilding mode", your ultimate goal as a franchise is to (every season) compete to win for a SB. Herm's teams never did that outside of backing into the playoffs in 2006. That team was a fraud standing on it's last legs from an old previous aging regime, only to completely implode in the playoffs. If you're not good enough to make the post-season dance, then at least you see progress in the team from season to season. Under Herm there was literally no progression.

Even though Herm landed a handful of good draft picks (Hali, Bowe, Charles, Flowers, Carr, Albert) his teams collectively got worse and worse each year. And that's not even remotely debatable.

It is seriously astounding to me that people on here can't see that the team post vermeil needed to be blown up.

That team had to get worse to get better.

[Buehler445]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

It is seriously astounding to me that people on here can't see that the team post vermeil needed to be blown up.

That team had to get worse to get better.

Where in the actual **** did I ever say that we could just roll on with Vermeil's guys?

FFS every coaching or GM change comes with significant turnover. It was going to happen anyway. And yes, the cap wasn't spectacular.

But to sit here and defend Herm for that abortion he ran out there is a ****ing joke. 2-14 is never acceptable. If 2-14 happens it means there was a system wide disaster. It happened with Herm and it happened with Pioli. Just a ****ing massive catastrophe.

[TigeRRUppeRRcut]

NFL has Herm come in regularly to talk to rookies about making good decisions in life especially as they are vulnerable to make bad ones as their fame status grows. Frustrates him despite his annual talk a lot of them go off and do dumb things both personally and financially that puts them in the focus of the media and him being a proud African American, it really ticks him off to see the Josh Gordons, the Aldon Smiths, Ray Rice, etc.

I for one am glad Reid is our head coach because he is so good at fostering the idea of the team, rather than allowing players making it about themselves

[lewdog]

Holy shit, this argument is still going today for pages and pages!

Who knew Herm did the dirty with Buehler's wife!?!?

[Buehler445]

Originally Posted by lewdog

Holy shit, this argument is still going today for pages and pages!

Who knew Herm did the dirty with Buehler's wife!?!?

Not the wife. Although she hates him probably more than I do. Herm ****ed my soul for the game. He killed a shitton of interest in the game because we were a ****ing joke. Dudes show up to arrowhead whip that pussy for a half and get a chance to rest the starters. Pioli went ahead and pissed on the grave of my fandom but for the first time in my life the Chiefs entered games with no chance to win or even be competitive.

Herm took a franchise you could root for and have a chance at doing something and turned it into a ****ing joke. And somehow miraculously parlayed that into an analyst career. One in which he's constantly a ****ing clown schtick. And then berates mither****er a for not being professional.

**** Herm.

[tk13]

Well this is an impressively long argument. I actually do think Herm and Kuharich had some real nice hits in the draft. And he somehow won the struggle with Carl to make this team younger. We weren't quite the salary cap disaster that this thread paints it as... but Herm did turn the roster over and make it younger.

Herm probably took over a team in better shape than Vermeil did, even though we didn't draft very well under Vermeil... both him and Carl were basically going for it. Carl should not have survived to see another coach. When Vermeil took over we were really in a bad cap situation... all kinds of dead money from Dan Williams, Carlton Gray, etc. Vermeil even said if he knew what terrible shape this franchise was in, he probably wouldn't have taken the job. Him and Saunders cleaned a lot of that mess out and built a great offense on the cheap. Obviously not the same with the defense. But when Herm took over we were just getting old.

Although I've always said I think both DV and Herm were undercut by Carl... especially by forcing Gunther on both of them. Wasted 5 years trying to relive the glory days, and as soon as both coaches were fired Gunther chucked them both right under the bus. Real nice work.

[WhiteWhale]

Herm was a guy who scapegoated everyone around him and always spotlighted himself.

When Herm left KC they were one of the least talented teams in the league. He had enough time. I can't believe people here are still defending him.

I don't want to hear about the 2008 draft, which was one of the deepest pools of talent to come around... AND he had bonus picks because of the Allen trade. Even a semi-competent guy nets 2-3 quality players with a dozen picks that year. Charles had a first round grade from a lot of teams. He fell into our lap.

[OctoberFart]

Shady spent the offseason partying in Vegas and inviting young girls in Buffalo to parties. He is a turd.

[Frosty]

200+ posts on Herman ****ing Edwards?

Thread Tools > Ignore this thread

[Bowser]

Originally Posted by Frosty

200+ posts on Herman ****ing Edwards?

Thread Tools > Ignore this thread

It's amazing. I think chiefzilla is literally the one person I've met either on here or in real life that feels in any capacity that Herman ****ing Edwards was a positive for this franchise. The excuses he makes for him are laughable. For ****'s sake, we've got a Jets fan on here agreeing with all the rest of us, but he still just keeps on with his narrative.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Bowser

It's amazing. I think chiefzilla is literally the one person I've met either on here or in real life that feels in any capacity that Herman ****ing Edwards was a positive for this franchise. The excuses he makes for him are laughable. For ****'s sake, we've got a Jets fan on here agreeing with all the rest of us, but he still just keeps on with his narrative.

There are plenty of people who believe that Herm was okay to good from a personnel standpoint.

And I agree with most of the criticisms of his coaching. Except when people use the word "horrible."

Of course people are going to disagree with me. For some reason, Herm gets an insane amount of criticism and chiefsplanet and fans in general love to live in extremes. People are either 100% terrible or they're Gods. There's nothing in-between. So for you to say Herm did nothing at all positive for the Chiefs, I'll use the word again: that's "ridiculous."

[KCBOSS1]

I absolutely love everything he had to say and how he said it. I love that He didn't give the F10 answer. I would never want him back as our coach, but I just like him... he's real. I'm old school and I could not agree with him more.