Did y'all catch Squirmin Herman's spot on ESPN about Shady?

[Buehler445]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

There is no benefit other than "feel good" to win 6 games over 2. Getting better draft position was one thing. We had $57M to spend because we chose not to band-aid. That would have put in position to draft Sanchez -- even if he's middling, it was a huge upgrade over Thigpen and also Cassel. It would have put us in position to make a run at several of top notch free agents like Peppers, Haynesworth, Vilma, Dansby, Asomugah. And we would have had multiple rounds to pull in maybe 1 or 2 more contributors.

Losing only sucks if you're not in a position to tank. For a team trying to rebuild and clean up their cap, it's a great thing.

I'm not talking about finding band-aids for 6 feel gooders. I'm talking about building a damn team with some depth that can win 6 games. Just because a dude is a free agent doesn't mean he's washed up. Look at Abdulah, West, et al that I listed above. You can go find good value free agents. Herm didn't. The team he built was horrible. But you want to forget 3 years of complete ****all because he went out and got 6 mother****ing guys.

No. Given 3 years almost any personnel man, including the Pioli Reich, was also ****ing horrible, can go get a few guys that can play. It takes far more than hitting on a Jamaal Charles or Justin Houston to do a team some good.

Herm was horrible.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Buehler445

I'm not talking about finding band-aids for 6 feel gooders. I'm talking about building a damn team with some depth that can win 6 games. Just because a dude is a free agent doesn't mean he's washed up. Look at Abdulah, West, et al that I listed above. You can go find good value free agents. Herm didn't. The team he built was horrible. But you want to forget 3 years of complete ****all because he went out and got 6 mother****ing guys.

No. Given 3 years almost any personnel man, including the Pioli Reich, was also ****ing horrible, can go get a few guys that can play. It takes far more than hitting on a Jamaal Charles or Justin Houston to do a team some good.

Herm was horrible.

And again, I think you're overrating how easy it is to find players off the scrap heap. No, Herm hasn't done nearly as well as Dorsey in this department, but Dorsey is also doing it better than most GMs in the league. But you have to acknowledge that Dorsey's success is also largely dependent on taking a ton of swings and misses. For every success, there are a lot of expensive failures too like Vance Walker, Mays, Fasano, etc.... The big QB move Dorsey made makes sense for a team in 2013 that was desperate to start winning. Makes no sense for a team like the 2008 Chiefs who needed every last draft pick they could get to build the foundation.

First, please stop using the word "6." I've pointed out several times he brought in about 10 starting calibre players, with 5 or 6 of them being very good. And even using 10 uses the impossible standard that any GM is going to find you 50 starters on the roster. Guys like Babin, Gilberry, Ron Edwards, Wade Smith, Turk, Battle, Barry Richardson, Studebaker, McGraw are more than adequate roster guys. Throw in the 4 or 5 guys from the Vermeil regime... in 3 years spending barely any money on long-term guys and having shitty draft position 2 of those 3 years, we built out half a starting roster and filling half of a 53-man roster with legit roster players. That's not great, but it's certainly not "horrible" given the circumstances.

Sometimes the decision not to spend is just as powerful as the decision to spend. I complimented Dorsey for showing restraint in 2014 and got hammered by it. People gave me shit for praising Dorsey for not spending a shitload on Jairus Byrd, Desean Jackson, and for stockpiling comp picks. Similarly, Herm deserves a lot of credit for showing the same restraint including passing multiple times on a chance to bring in Chad Pennington.

[Buehler445]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

And again, I think you're overrating how easy it is to find players off the scrap heap. No, Herm hasn't done nearly as well as Dorsey in this department, but Dorsey is also doing it better than most GMs in the league. But you have to acknowledge that Dorsey's success is also largely dependent on taking a ton of swings and misses. For every success, there are a lot of expensive failures too like Vance Walker, Mays, Fasano, etc.... The big QB move Dorsey made makes sense for a team in 2013 that was desperate to start winning. Makes no sense for a team like the 2008 Chiefs who needed every last draft pick they could get to build the foundation.

No, it's not easy. But you HAVE to get production out low income guys to have a decent team in a salary cap sport. Herm did not do that. Herm ****ing sucked shit. His team that he built sucked shit. He did not do us any favors. He was horrible. You refuse to admit it.

The QB thing, I don't know why you're hung up on it. Herm had to do something. He blew a third rounder on a guy that was horrible. Won 0 NFL games ever. Dorsey spent 2 seconds on a guy that is servicable. Either one is very good, but to act like Herm did the better thing is just absurd.

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

First, please stop using the word "6." I've pointed out several times he brought in about 10 starting calibre players, with 5 or 6 of them being very good. And even using 10 uses the impossible standard that any GM is going to find you 50 starters on the roster. Guys like Babin, Gilberry, Ron Edwards, Wade Smith, Turk, Battle, Barry Richardson, Studebaker, McGraw are more than adequate roster guys. Throw in the 4 or 5 guys from the Vermeil regime... in 3 years spending barely any money on long-term guys and having shitty draft position 2 of those 3 years, we built out half a starting roster and filling half of a 53-man roster with legit roster players. That's not great, but it's certainly not "horrible" given the circumstances.

This must be where you and I disagree. The roster that he filled out was shit. He had dudes that flat out couldn't play at a lot of positions. We are looking at a competent personnel guy fill out the Chiefs in 3 years after an abysmal season. Look at the depth on the Chiefs team vs what it was in 08. It's not even funny. Herm hit on some guys. Whoo hoo. Any personnel guy can hit on some guys. Herm just filled the roster with complete hogshit outside of your 10 guys or whatever number you want to pick and say, "LOOK AT WHUT THE HERMZ DID, GUIZ". The team was shit.

Herm found a few guys, sure. But pointing to those guys as the basis for telling me I'm absurd for saying he wrecked the franchise is complete and utter shit. As as been pointed out, any football guy can come up with a few dudes, even the master of team trashing Pioli. Finding 6 guys that are good and a few more that belong on a roster does not excuse the complete and utter ****-up he dragged this franchise through. Are ways good teams turn the roster over and the good teams don't go 2-14.

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Sometimes the decision not to spend is just as powerful as the decision to spend. I complimented Dorsey for showing restraint in 2014 and got hammered by it. People gave me shit for praising Dorsey for not spending a shitload on Jairus Byrd, Desean Jackson, and for stockpiling comp picks. Similarly, Herm deserves a lot of credit for showing the same restraint including passing multiple times on a chance to bring in Chad Pennington.

Sure, not going out and over-spending on free agents is a good thing. I'm not saying he should have. You keep thinking I am, but I'm not. You can find FA's that have VALUE. Similar to a draft prospect, you can look at tape of a FA, and say I can work with that in my system. They don't have to be stars, but they have to outperform their contract. That is how good teams run FA's, save for Green Bay that never brings anybody in.

Herm ****ing failed miserably at personnel because he could not bring in an FA that was worth a shit. Sure he ran 120 or whatever the number was off UDFA's through here and all that yielded....Dantrell Savage. Let's not pretend he didn't take a bunch of swings and whiffs. Like that goddamned UDFA WR that he wanted to run the option for him (**** Herm. Seriously.).

Herm failed miserably at constructing a roster that could be competitive. You can whine about DV, despite the remarkably higher number of guys that went on to play 3 years than Herm had. You can whine about the cap, that he had 3 years to fix. You can whine about Herm being misunderstood and that the ENTIRE NFL was missing the boat on "good" players like Tank Tyler and Turk McBride. You can whine about having to turn the roster over, despite other teams doing it and not being a ****ing joke. But the bottom line is this:

tl;dr Herm failed at building a roster that was even remotely close to competing. **** Herm.