Football Did y'all catch Squirmin Herman's spot on ESPN about Shady? - Page 10

**Mr. Flopnuts** · 06:30 PM

He straight up went the **** off! I don't know if this happened this morning, or a couple of days ago but he lost his ****ing shit over it! It was great. I'll try and track down something I can embed into this post. For those who saw it, did you laugh, or were you almost embarrassed for the guy?

chiefzilla1501 · 12-14-2015, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigCatDaddy

The common view of Herm was good scout/poor gameday coach. I wouldnt take any view point other than that too serious.

Thanks. That is where I'm at.

**Buehler445** · 12-14-2015, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

And again, I think you're overrating how easy it is to find players off the scrap heap. No, Herm hasn't done nearly as well as Dorsey in this department, but Dorsey is also doing it better than most GMs in the league. But you have to acknowledge that Dorsey's success is also largely dependent on taking a ton of swings and misses. For every success, there are a lot of expensive failures too like Vance Walker, Mays, Fasano, etc.... The big QB move Dorsey made makes sense for a team in 2013 that was desperate to start winning. Makes no sense for a team like the 2008 Chiefs who needed every last draft pick they could get to build the foundation.

No, it's not easy. But you HAVE to get production out low income guys to have a decent team in a salary cap sport. Herm did not do that. Herm ****ing sucked shit. His team that he built sucked shit. He did not do us any favors. He was horrible. You refuse to admit it.

The QB thing, I don't know why you're hung up on it. Herm had to do something. He blew a third rounder on a guy that was horrible. Won 0 NFL games ever. Dorsey spent 2 seconds on a guy that is servicable. Either one is very good, but to act like Herm did the better thing is just absurd.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

First, please stop using the word "6." I've pointed out several times he brought in about 10 starting calibre players, with 5 or 6 of them being very good. And even using 10 uses the impossible standard that any GM is going to find you 50 starters on the roster. Guys like Babin, Gilberry, Ron Edwards, Wade Smith, Turk, Battle, Barry Richardson, Studebaker, McGraw are more than adequate roster guys. Throw in the 4 or 5 guys from the Vermeil regime... in 3 years spending barely any money on long-term guys and having shitty draft position 2 of those 3 years, we built out half a starting roster and filling half of a 53-man roster with legit roster players. That's not great, but it's certainly not "horrible" given the circumstances.

This must be where you and I disagree. The roster that he filled out was shit. He had dudes that flat out couldn't play at a lot of positions. We are looking at a competent personnel guy fill out the Chiefs in 3 years after an abysmal season. Look at the depth on the Chiefs team vs what it was in 08. It's not even funny. Herm hit on some guys. Whoo hoo. Any personnel guy can hit on some guys. Herm just filled the roster with complete hogshit outside of your 10 guys or whatever number you want to pick and say, "LOOK AT WHUT THE HERMZ DID, GUIZ". The team was shit.

Herm found a few guys, sure. But pointing to those guys as the basis for telling me I'm absurd for saying he wrecked the franchise is complete and utter shit. As as been pointed out, any football guy can come up with a few dudes, even the master of team trashing Pioli. Finding 6 guys that are good and a few more that belong on a roster does not excuse the complete and utter ****-up he dragged this franchise through. Are ways good teams turn the roster over and the good teams don't go 2-14.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Sometimes the decision not to spend is just as powerful as the decision to spend. I complimented Dorsey for showing restraint in 2014 and got hammered by it. People gave me shit for praising Dorsey for not spending a shitload on Jairus Byrd, Desean Jackson, and for stockpiling comp picks. Similarly, Herm deserves a lot of credit for showing the same restraint including passing multiple times on a chance to bring in Chad Pennington.

Sure, not going out and over-spending on free agents is a good thing. I'm not saying he should have. You keep thinking I am, but I'm not. You can find FA's that have VALUE. Similar to a draft prospect, you can look at tape of a FA, and say I can work with that in my system. They don't have to be stars, but they have to outperform their contract. That is how good teams run FA's, save for Green Bay that never brings anybody in.

Herm ****ing failed miserably at personnel because he could not bring in an FA that was worth a shit. Sure he ran 120 or whatever the number was off UDFA's through here and all that yielded....Dantrell Savage. Let's not pretend he didn't take a bunch of swings and whiffs. Like that goddamned UDFA WR that he wanted to run the option for him (**** Herm. Seriously.).

Herm failed miserably at constructing a roster that could be competitive. You can whine about DV, despite the remarkably higher number of guys that went on to play 3 years than Herm had. You can whine about the cap, that he had 3 years to fix. You can whine about Herm being misunderstood and that the ENTIRE NFL was missing the boat on "good" players like Tank Tyler and Turk McBride. You can whine about having to turn the roster over, despite other teams doing it and not being a ****ing joke. But the bottom line is this:

tl;dr Herm failed at building a roster that was even remotely close to competing. **** Herm.

**Buehler445** · 12-14-2015, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

But yet nobody bats an eye when people over-the-top rip on his legacy all the time. Completely at random. In ways we never did with actual ****-ups like Romeo.

Romeo was a puppet of the Pioli Reich. I have many many Pioli rants on this website. But you keep bringing up Romeo. Romeo wasn't the problem Pioli was. In quite the similar vein Herm was the problem because Herm was ****ing horrible and made the franchise a completely uncompetitive ****ing joke.

I even said in my initial post that you think is absurd that Pioli was technically worse. But it didn't matter nearly as much because Herm had already made the ****ing franchise a joke. A mother****ing joke. Our Chiefs. A joke.

FloridaMan88 · 12-14-2015, 11:28 AM

Herm set the Chiefs franchise back 10 years.

For someone on this board to still defend him is disgraceful.

**Buehler445** · 12-14-2015, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KCChiefsFan88

Herm was an overrated scout of talent.

Brodie Croyle, Tank Tyler, Turk McBride, Glenn Dorsey.

That is Herm's selected QBOTF and defensive line of the future that he absolutely bombed.

This. If here were a good talent evaluator he'd have compiled enough talent to win far more than 2 games after 3 years of building a team. He found 6 good players and a handful of average dudes and left like 40 spots filled with complete shit.

If he could evaluate talent, he'd have been able to find some cheap guys to fill some of those holes.

**Buehler445** · 12-14-2015, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigCatDaddy

I'm a little disturbed at the passion and time invested over Herm's legacy.

It is appalling to me that anyone would call his time here anything other than catastrophic.

FloridaMan88 · 12-14-2015, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buehler445

This. If here were a good talent evaluator he'd have compiled enough talent to win far more than 2 games after 3 years of building a team. He found 6 good players and a handful of average dudes and left like 40 spots filled with complete shit.

If he could evaluate talent, he'd have been able to find some cheap guys to fill some of those holes.

Really Herm had two good draft picks... Charles and Tamba. And with both of these players Herm had no clue how to maximize their potential.

After Charles and Tamba, Herm's next "successes" were Bernard Pollard (a journeyman player who has bounced around to multiple teams in his career), Dwayne Bowe (a few good seasons, otherwise an underachieving player), Brandon Carr, Brandon Flowers and Branden Albert who all eventually became expendable/not worth big contracts to retain.

That isn't a great draft track record... especially when you look back at the 2008 draft when Herm had TWELVE freaking draft picks, including 2 first rounders and three third rounders.

**Buehler445** · 12-14-2015, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KCChiefsFan88

Really Herm had two good draft picks... Charles and Tamba. And with both of these players Herm had no clue how to maximize their potential.

After Charles and Tamba, Herm's next "successes" were Bernard Pollard (a journeyman player who has bounced around to multiple teams in his career), Dwayne Bowe (a few good seasons, otherwise an underachieving player), Brandon Carr, Brandon Flowers and Branden Albert who all eventually became expendable/not worth big contracts to retain.

That isn't a great draft track record... especially when you look back at the 2008 draft when Herm had TWELVE freaking draft picks, including 2 first rounders and three third rounders.

It also bears noting that zilla insists that Herm demanded to go young. Yet he stuck with LJ after he ****ing killed him for EVERY SINGLE SNAP until he got hurt and couldn't go anymore and they went went from 3 YPC to 5YPC when Charles stepped on the field with the same shitacular talent.

Herm the great talent evaluator couldn't get Charles on the field to even spell LJ for a few snaps during his vaunted youth movement.

Herm was a ****ing joke.

chiefzilla1501 · 12-14-2015, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KCChiefsFan88

Really Herm had two good draft picks... Charles and Tamba. And with both of these players Herm had no clue how to maximize their potential.

After Charles and Tamba, Herm's next "successes" were Bernard Pollard (a journeyman player who has bounced around to multiple teams in his career), Dwayne Bowe (a few good seasons, otherwise an underachieving player), Brandon Carr, Brandon Flowers and Branden Albert who all eventually became expendable/not worth big contracts to retain.

That isn't a great draft track record... especially when you look back at the 2008 draft when Herm had TWELVE freaking draft picks, including 2 first rounders and three third rounders.

So now we're not giving credit for draft picks that became too good that they wanted an expensive second contract? That sounds reasonable.

chiefzilla1501 · 12-14-2015, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buehler445

It also bears noting that zilla insists that Herm demanded to go young. Yet he stuck with LJ after he ****ing killed him for EVERY SINGLE SNAP until he got hurt and couldn't go anymore and they went went from 3 YPC to 5YPC when Charles stepped on the field with the same shitacular talent.

Herm the great talent evaluator couldn't get Charles on the field to even spell LJ for a few snaps during his vaunted youth movement.

Herm was a ****ing joke.

So you bring up one example where they didn't start a rookie over a pro bowl, 27 year old RB as your example of not committing to a youth movement? Herm also went with Tony Gonzalez and Brian Waters. But that's a small blip compared to all the veterans that were slashed.

**Buehler445** · 12-14-2015, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KCChiefsFan88

Really Herm had two good draft picks... Charles and Tamba. And with both of these players Herm had no clue how to maximize their potential.

After Charles and Tamba, Herm's next "successes" were Bernard Pollard (a journeyman player who has bounced around to multiple teams in his career), Dwayne Bowe (a few good seasons, otherwise an underachieving player), Brandon Carr, Brandon Flowers and Branden Albert who all eventually became expendable/not worth big contracts to retain.

That isn't a great draft track record... especially when you look back at the 2008 draft when Herm had TWELVE freaking draft picks, including 2 first rounders and three third rounders.

That's a little harsh. I'd probably call all those guys good draft picks. Even conceding those, the rest of the team is just a giant heap of hot garbage. That is inexcusable for the guy whose ONLY redeeming qualities were personnel. Even if you want to point to his mediocre drafting and call it "good".

**Buehler445** · 12-14-2015, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

So you bring up one example where they didn't start a rookie over a pro bowl, 27 year old RB as your example of not committing to a youth movement? Herm also went with Tony Gonzalez and Brian Waters. But that's a small blip compared to all the veterans that were slashed.

If he were so good at personnel could he not look at practice and say, "This little firecracker can run. Let's get him 8 of LJ's carries because he is running at 3 YPC".

Just because you run a huge number of young guys out there doesn't mean you know WTF you are doing.

But I wrote a goddamned novel 3 posts above and you choose to fight me on this?

EDIT: It was like 6 posts sorry.

BigCatDaddy · 12-14-2015, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KCChiefsFan88

Herm was an overrated scout of talent.

Brodie Croyle, Tank Tyler, Turk McBride, Glenn Dorsey.

That is Herm's selected QBOTF and defensive line of the future that he absolutely bombed.

Im not going to hash this but he also had some nice hits early and late in drafts. Over rated is a generic term but he was at least above average regarding talent evaluation for a HC.

chiefzilla1501 · 12-14-2015, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KCChiefsFan88

Herm set the Chiefs franchise back 10 years.

For someone on this board to still defend him is disgraceful.

10 years? What a ****ing joke.

Look at the roster I showed above which is what Herm left behind. A strong 2009 offseason where we draft Sanchez (average, but still a mile better than what we had). $57M to bring in 3 or 4 bonafide quality starters. And hitting on 1 or 2 other draft picks, and that team is very competitive in 2009 for a legit coach, which Herm was not. If Reid and Dorsey joined forces in 2009, they could have easily turned that team into a decent team by year 1.

FloridaMan88 · 12-14-2015, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

So now we're not giving credit for draft picks that became too good that they wanted an expensive second contract? That sounds reasonable.

Wrong.

They were not good enough to justify expensive second contracts.

12-13-2015, 05:15 PM
Mr. Flopnuts FINALLY! The wait is over. Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: The Future Is Now!!! Casino cash: $19947565	Did y'all catch Squirmin Herman's spot on ESPN about Shady? He straight up went the ** off! I don't know if this happened this morning, or a couple of days ago but he lost his *ing shit over it! It was great. I'll try and track down something I can embed into this post. For those who saw it, did you laugh, or were you almost embarrassed for the guy? Last edited by Mr. Flopnuts; 12-13-2015 at 06:30 PM..*
Posts: 56,649

12-14-2015, 11:28 AM	#139
FloridaMan88 Mahomes: We Are All Witnesses Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Miami, FL Casino cash: $-587094	Herm set the Chiefs franchise back 10 years. For someone on this board to still defend him is disgraceful.
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