Thin and young Secondary Thoughts

[Chief Roundup]

Our Defense is now down a 3rd player in the secondary. All 3 of these players were high quality veteran players that were important to our team and Defense.
Peters has been exceptional. But his own youth almost got the most of him a couple of times as even he alluded too. He mentioned that the veterans helped calm him down.
I do not really know what is available from the FA pool. I know there seems like some good prospects in the draft at the CB position, can they have as much impact in their rookie season as Peters did though is the real question.
Don't know much about the Safety pool in the draft. I wouldn't be surprised if we spend our first two rounds on the secondary.

I hope we sign at least one vet and don't go that young.

[Chief Roundup]

Originally Posted by O.city

Why? There are good players that come out of those rounds every year.

Just depends what they ask them to do.

Players of the same quality of Branch, Abdullah as rookies in the 4th, 5th or later rounds. Maybe the occasional but it is definitely not the norm.

[RunKC]

Originally Posted by Urc Burry

I love the idea of Karl Joseph in the first.. Corner is more pressing, but as much as we use our safeties I'd love the idea of taking him... It might be a little early, but I don't think he'd be there in the second. He's the total package for a safety.. Great in coverage, and great in run support. He's also got that Tyrann Mathieu versatility.. I don't think he'd have a problem covering man in the slot

I was just thinking this. Another Ron Parker type would be great even with Fleming.

We need good cover guys and we play both press and zone. DeAndre-Houston Carson is a guy later who could fill that role if they choose that route. Played as a press CB and safety in college.

[BossChief]

Originally Posted by Chief Roundup

No they don't but a 4th or 5th round talent is going to get abused when they do rotations. Sutton likes to use those sets that require more than 2 safeties. Don't forget a viable insurance policy in case of injury.

I think he goes with those sets out of nessesary rather than anything else.

Remember, we were without SS for 3 games and Gaines went on IR in the second game...otherwise, Parker wouldn't have been the nickel corner.

Gaines would have.

Hopefully they have confidence in Steven Nelson to fill that role this year and were also able to add a CB in the draft and we stay healthy.

[gblowfish]

Hmmm..I thought the title of this thread was "Thin and Young Secretary Thoughts." I was going to recommend calling Cordell and Cordell.

[mcaj22]

Branch and Abdullah according to Football Outsiders were responsible for 39% and 39% defensive snaps last year (about 430 snaps each), they are about 80% one full time starting safety platooning together.

If you're selling me on the idea that those 800 snaps now go to Fleming, Sorenson & rookie safety I might puke. That's a massive drop in talent.

[staylor26]

Originally Posted by mcaj22

Branch and Abdullah according to Football Outsiders were responsible for 39% and 39% defensive snaps last year (about 430 snaps each), they are about 80% one full time starting safety platooning together.

If you're selling me on the idea that those 800 snaps now go to Fleming, Sorenson & rookie safety I might puke. That's a massive drop in talent.

Parker will be back at safety.

[mcaj22]

Originally Posted by staylor26

Parker will be back at safety.

Parker already led the defense in snap count last year and he wasn't a full time corner anyway. He still played safety last year too. He can't get anymore snaps he's already maxed out and never leaves the field, so it doesn't matter where we put him.

You're still losing those 800 snaps from Branch and Abdullah no matter how you slice it whether with 2 safeties or 1 safety and a slot CB. it's still minus 2 platoon starters in the secondary.

[MikeMaslowski]

Gotta think that this is where Dorsey cements his status. Can he do it?

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by mcaj22

Branch and Abdullah according to Football Outsiders were responsible for 39% and 39% defensive snaps last year (about 430 snaps each), they are about 80% one full time starting safety platooning together.

If you're selling me on the idea that those 800 snaps now go to Fleming, Sorenson & rookie safety I might puke. That's a massive drop in talent.

I don't think it's a drop in 'talent' at all. Honestly, Fleming is a more talented player than Abdullah and Branch, IMO.

That said, it's unquestionably a drop in experience and as a consequence, likely a drop in productivity at least in the early-going.

But that's why coaches get paid and that's what happens to talented teams in a cap league. You simply have to continue to find cost/resource effective solutions to filling holes.

Using a first round pick on your 3rd safety is damn sure not a resource effective solution, IMO.

I worry a fair amount about CB2 but the NCB/#3 safety should be able to be filled with Fleming and a mid-round pick. There will be some growing pains but that's life.

[mcaj22]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

I don't think it's a drop in 'talent' at all. Honestly, Fleming is a more talented player than Abdullah and Branch, IMO.

That said, it's unquestionably a drop in experience and as a consequence, likely a drop in productivity at least in the early-going.

But that's why coaches get paid and that's what happens to talented teams in a cap league. You simply have to continue to find cost/resource effective solutions to filling holes.

Using a first round pick on your 3rd safety is damn sure not a resource effective solution, IMO.

I worry a fair amount about CB2 but the NCB/#3 safety should be able to be filled with Fleming and a mid-round pick. There will be some growing pains but that's life.

if Fleming has to play slot CB for us I don't trust him being able to cover anyone, mainly because he hasn't really shown he can cover anyone.

[displacedinMN]

I object to the idea of a football thread on a football forum!

[Chief Roundup]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

I don't think it's a drop in 'talent' at all. Honestly, Fleming is a more talented player than Abdullah and Branch, IMO.

That said, it's unquestionably a drop in experience and as a consequence, likely a drop in productivity at least in the early-going.

But that's why coaches get paid and that's what happens to talented teams in a cap league. You simply have to continue to find cost/resource effective solutions to filling holes.

Using a first round pick on your 3rd safety is damn sure not a resource effective solution, IMO.

I worry a fair amount about CB2 but the NCB/#3 safety should be able to be filled with Fleming and a mid-round pick. There will be some growing pains but that's life.

Man from what I remember Fleming was like burnt toast out there. I don't see him as an upgrade at all.
I sure don't want to pick a S in the first but I don't want to wait until the 4th or later and then have to depend on that person.
Gaines and Nelson haven't proven anything yet other than they have been injured and should not be solely relied upon either.
At this point I imagine Dorsey will figure something decent out of it all. We are going to be pressed to replace what Smith meant to the CB position as well as replacing two starter quality safeties all in one offseason there is likely going to be a down grade overall in the secondary.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by mcaj22

if Fleming has to play slot CB for us I don't trust him being able to cover anyone, mainly because he hasn't really shown he can cover anyone.

He can't press worth a damn and his man skills are deficient at best, but the NCB isn't going to be tasked with covering most SWRs in man. His deficiencies will be masked a lot in the slot and he can just use his athleticism.

I think he'd be fine there.

Ultimately it's depth that worries me more than the front line guys. If we ran with Peters, Gaines, Fleming, Berry, Parker as our primary 5 DBs, that's average at worst and has the potential to remain among the best secondaries in football. But boy, it doesn't take more than one or two injuries for that unit to fall to hell in a hurry.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Chief Roundup

Man from what I remember Fleming was like burnt toast out there. I don't see him as an upgrade at all.
I sure don't want to pick a S in the first but I don't want to wait until the 4th or later and then have to depend on that person.
Gaines and Nelson haven't proven anything yet other than they have been injured and should not be solely relied upon either.
At this point I imagine Dorsey will figure something decent out of it all. We are going to be pressed to replace what Smith meant to the CB position as well as replacing two starter quality safeties all in one offseason there is likely going to be a down grade overall in the secondary.

Different question w/r/t Gaines and Nelson.

I absolutely believe the first rounder should go towards a CB and the moment that only one remains of Alexander, Apple and Jackson, Dorsey had better be ready to trade up and grab him. They absolutely cannot exit the first without one of those guys, IMO.

Because out wide, the talent has absolutely been reduced and that's how the Chiefs will have to address it.

I'm responding to the idea that we should take a safety in the first - that's just batty. This safety group is still plenty talented and getting a 2nd round player at the back of the 1st to act as a backup is just a horrid use of resources.

[Chief Roundup]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Different question w/r/t Gaines and Nelson.

I absolutely believe the first rounder should go towards a CB and the moment that only one remains of Alexander, Apple and Jackson, Dorsey had better be ready to trade up and grab him. They absolutely cannot exit the first without one of those guys, IMO.

Because out wide, the talent has absolutely been reduced and that's how the Chiefs will have to address it.

I'm responding to the idea that we should take a safety in the first - that's just batty. This safety group is still plenty talented and getting a 2nd round player at the back of the 1st to act as a backup is just a horrid use of resources.

Totally agree.
Unless we sign a decent FA vet safety, or get our 3rd back, I hope we draft a S in the 2cd. I just don't believe the talent will be there at the safety position, 4th round, that late in the draft compared to say the G spot that needs some attention also.