Chiefs ****2016 Chiefs Training Camp Thread**** - Page 157

Dinny Bossa Nova · 05:17 PM

QBs and rookies report today.

Sorry if Q, didn't search.

Dinny

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**Anyong Bluth** · 08-11-2016, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buckweath

Andy Reid is a borderline top 10 coach. That's good! You can wish we had a better coach but if you're going to change, you're probably more likely to get worse than a better one.

John Dorsey IMO is arguably as good as any GM.

Not agreeing or disagreeing with you, just curious who is your list of 10+ coaches better than Andy?

**DaneMcCloud** · 08-11-2016, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThaVirus

1. Houston had 11 sacks in 11 games in 2013. That's elite production. Over the course of the 2013 and 2014 seasons he played 27 games and recorded 33 sacks. That's a 1.22 sack per game average. Some of the best pass rushers in NFL history average 0.60 sacks per game over the length of their career. Houston's been elite since 2013.

2. We argued Berry's value, yes, which devolved into a "how good is Berry, really?" debate. Sometimes you'd just outright say a safety isn't worth the kind of money he's asking for (totally fine- I even agree with this assessment) and others you'd argue that Berry really wasn't all that good in the first place, which is what I took issue with. I never said he was irreplaceable. You're misremembering.

3. Stats aren't everything. For God's sake, you're arguing that against Poe's impact because he doesn't have a ton of sacks! Bro, do you even football? How many NTs in the ****ing history of the NFL have ever had 8 sacks? Your logic is absurd.

Good ****ing god.

Yeah, I'm sure teams will be lining up to pay Dontari Poe $110+ million because there's more than "sacks".

**DaneMcCloud** · 08-11-2016, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by staylor26

Oh so now stats aren't everything?

Funny how they were when you were trying to say the Colts defense wasn't trash.

Stats and PFF are only appropriate when they're used to prove that Chiefs players suck.

staylor26 · 08-11-2016, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Stats and PFF are only appropriate when they're used to prove that Chiefs players suck.

Yup. He's a hypocrite.

ThaVirus · 08-11-2016, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Good ****ing god.

Yeah, I'm sure teams will be lining up to pay Dontari Poe $110+ million because there's more than "sacks".

I literally never once argued that Poe would be paid $110 million.

Try again.

ThaVirus · 08-11-2016, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by staylor26

Oh so now stats aren't everything?

Funny how they were when you were trying to say the Colts defense wasn't trash.

They've never been everything.

But when you try to argue with me that the Colts have one of the worst defenses in the league but they only allow 22 PPG (which is pretty average) then I just won't buy it.

**Anyong Bluth** · 08-11-2016, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

I'm honestly starting to believe that Chiefs fans are overvaluing Justin Houston.

Yes, he's a great player when healthy but it's unlikely he'll ever have 22 sacks in a season ever again. Last year, he had 7.5 through 11 games, which comes out to 11 sacks in a season, half of what he had the previous year. That's a nice number but it isn't insurmountable.

Also, he only had 25 tackles in 11 games. Dee Ford had 20 tackles in 5 starts.

At this point in time, I expect there to be a dropoff in performance from Houston to Ford but it's not going to be as dramatic as many people in this forum expect.

There certainly seems to be a sentiment that Houston is the defensive equivalent of missing a Brady level like player.

The guy's a tremendous talent, but this team is balanced and talented, with depth, and should be able to take care of business in 90% of the games they will face without him. What's vital is getting him back at full speed for the playoffs. His talents and contributions will matter most when facing equally talented teams and the margin of error is so much smaller that a win hangs in the balance of a handful of plays. 1 or 2 big plays by him here can be difference makers.

Looking at the schedule, if Houston is out 8-10 games as expected, not having him might cost us one game. Not because he isn't valuable, but simply because of how the schedule plays out.

**DaneMcCloud** · 08-11-2016, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThaVirus

I literally never once argued that Poe would be paid $110 million.

Try again.

Then go ahead and point out where I've said anything about Poe in a negative light or that I don't want to see him re-signed.

Hint: You won't find it.

People in this forum, for one reason or another, think that Poe's price on the open market will be far too high and that the Chiefs won't be able to keep him. He's a great player and I'm sure he'll get a minimum of $9-10 million per but he's not going to get a Fletcher Cox, Olivier Vernon or Suh type of contract unless he gets 8+ sacks and even then, it's hard to see him getting $100 million+.

There were many people that thought the Chiefs would lose Jaye Howard and that he'd get $10 million per and he re-signed for $6 million per (or $5 million, depending on the source).

People do a great job around here of overvaluing the Chiefs players.

**the Talking Can** · 08-11-2016, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThaVirus

It's absolutely is titanic. Houston is ten times the player Ford is.

I can't believe you'd even try to argue against it.

anyone arguing against this is a ****ing reerun

RunKC · 08-11-2016, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by staylor26

Oh come on, I'm so tired of that bullshit. It's the NFL, 6-0 is 6-0.

We beat the Patriots with Maclin and Ware healthy, not to mention all the other additions on offense this year.

Jimmy Clausen
JFF
Brian Hoyer

Beating those QB's without a pass rush is a bit different than Rivers (who we barely beat without Houston last time), Big Ben, Luck, Bortles, etc.

The pass rush is a real issue, and even though Ford has potential I'm not crowning him until I see some progress.

mcaj22 · 08-11-2016, 04:47 PM

I really thought Jaye Howard would have got paid in Free Agency just by simple market inflation. He's a good player, cap rises, players make money in free agency. I just thought he would get his. I'm fine with him coming back cheap, I have no problem if other teams think he's a one trick pony that's scheme dependent to the Chiefs, hope the market thinks of all our players like that and they come back cheap.

**The Franchise** · 08-11-2016, 04:48 PM

Here is Conley and Jones with two impressive catches as well. #ChiefsCamp pic.twitter.com/VN8gCVYFpD
— Nick Jacobs (@Jacobs71) August 10, 2016

ThaVirus · 08-11-2016, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Then go ahead and point out where I've said anything about Poe in a negative light or that I don't want to see him re-signed.

Hint: You won't find it.

People in this forum, for one reason or another, think that Poe's price on the open market will be far too high and that the Chiefs won't be able to keep him. He's a great player and I'm sure he'll get a minimum of $9-10 million per but he's not going to get a Fletcher Cox, Olivier Vernon or Suh type of contract unless he gets 8+ sacks and even then, it's hard to see him getting $100 million+.

There were many people that thought the Chiefs would lose Jaye Howard and that he'd get $10 million per and he re-signed for $6 million per (or $5 million, depending on the source).

People do a great job around here of overvaluing the Chiefs players.

News flash: NTs don't get paid for sacks. The entire basis of your argument is that Poe isn't worth a large contract because he doesn't get a lot of sacks. I've been trying to get you to understand how shitty that logic is for the longest time but you just don't get it.

Besides, Jaye Howard got $6m per and you don't think Poe can get $9-10m?

**DaneMcCloud** · 08-11-2016, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThaVirus

News flash: NTs don't get paid for sacks. The entire basis of your argument is that Poe isn't worth a large contract because he doesn't get a lot of sacks. I've been trying to get you to understand how shitty that logic is for the longest time but you just don't get it.

Besides, Jaye Howard got $6m per and you don't think Poe can get $9-10m?

What? YES, Poe can get $9-10 million but he's NOT going to get $15 million per.

Good God, READ!

ThaVirus · 08-11-2016, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

What? YES, Poe can get $9-10 million but he's NOT going to get $15 million per.

Good God, READ!

Sorry, I just re-read your post. I'm a bit busy at the moment.

Really doesn't matter. The meat of my argument was how you're arguing Poe's worth.

The amount he's paid will not hinge on how many sacks he has. That's that.

07-26-2016, 06:21 AM
Dinny Bossa Nova MVP Join Date: Nov 2001 Casino cash: $9990442	**2016 Chiefs Training Camp Thread** QBs and rookies report today. Sorry if Q, didn't search. Dinny Tweets from https://twitter.com/RMSWeather/lists/chiefs Last edited by Dinny Bossa Nova; 07-29-2016 at 05:17 PM.. Reason: I'm trying to embed this thing. ????? Flustrating.
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08-11-2016, 04:47 PM	#2351
mcaj22 MVP Join Date: Feb 2010 Casino cash: $10014454	I really thought Jaye Howard would have got paid in Free Agency just by simple market inflation. He's a good player, cap rises, players make money in free agency. I just thought he would get his. I'm fine with him coming back cheap, I have no problem if other teams think he's a one trick pony that's scheme dependent to the Chiefs, hope the market thinks of all our players like that and they come back cheap.
Posts: 11,886

08-11-2016, 04:48 PM	#2352
The Franchise Most Valuable Villain Join Date: Dec 2006 Casino cash: $2055047	Here is Conley and Jones with two impressive catches as well. #ChiefsCamp pic.twitter.com/VN8gCVYFpD — Nick Jacobs (@Jacobs71) August 10, 2016
Posts: 92,316