I really like our corners right now.

[Direckshun]

I realize I'm probably going to regret saying this as Big Ben can legitimately carve up even elite secondaries, but two guys have me super impressed, aside from the usual amazing Marcus Peters:

Phillip Gaines. He's got some technique to clean up on, but he's started this season against Hopkins/Fuller and Marshall/Decker (we'll ignore the Chargers, since Keenan Allen was beating the shit out of Peters Week 1) and held his own. These WRs are more savvy than him right now but I'm getting flashbacks to when we started Brandon Carr for his rookie year -- he'll only get better as he gets more experience. His recovery speed is awesome, and he's almost always in the receiver's pocket.

Steven Nelson. What a shock to the system this guy has been -- the staff has handled him absolutely perfectly. Redshirting him last year was just the perfect thing to do, because his versatility in the secondary this year is invaluable. He's playing 100% of the snaps because we can put him on the outside and in the slot, shifting him all over the place on every drive. While, for now, we also play him a lot on special teams. Nelson has challenged everything, and seems to have the superior technique over Gaines. Nelson is also incredibly demonstrative and energetic on the field -- a perfect pairing with Peters, and that is turning out to be a 3rd rounder well spent.

DJ White, also. We have to talk about this kid. He's played like 12 defensive snaps for us so far this year and has made plays on roughly half of them. Like Nelson, he is an incredible competitor and so energetic on the field. His play against the Chargers (on his one snap!) was around the time the defense woke up. I love this kid, I think he's a pistol and he should definitely be in the rotation in dime packages over Sorensen.

The Russell thing still makes no sense to me, but it's really regretful that he didn't wake the **** up because having yet another young corner who can play would have really bulked up this secondary.

My favorite thing about this secondary is my favorite thing about our offensive line, our defensive line, our receivers, and our passrush: barring any tragic injuries, they're going to be so much better in Week 17 than they are now. They'll learn with our great coaching staff, they'll develop with playing time, and they'll gel better as a unit and as Sutton figures out where all the pieces fit.

If we can at least limp into the playoffs with a fully healthy Houston in January, we can hang with absolutely AFC team -- except perhaps the Pats, who seem to have successfully hacked the game of football.

That's our ceiling, though. Pretty exciting.

[Kiimo]

Originally Posted by ASS11

the guy has given up a lot of completions and been flagged for multiple penalties. thrown in the missed tackles and he's not very good.

The first part of your sentence does not determine the last part of your sentence.

[ToxSocks]

Originally Posted by O.city

So his most admirable attribute is the one thats most important for a corner to have?

We're golden.

Every trait is important. He's good at making a receiver look covered until the ball is in the air.... he doesn't play the ball well.

And what he does do well, it's not like he's elite at it. He's solid.

Im not "down" on Philip Gaines, i'm just not jumping on the hype train and being dishonest about him because he's a Chief. He has a ton to prove. He lacks some serious physicality, lacks game changing ability, and he can't stay healthy.

We can all hope and wish he gets better, but that's not a guarantee.

[ToxSocks]

Originally Posted by staylor26

He just DOES NOT get it. Detoxing seems like a smart dude, but he obviously can't evaluate a corner to save his life.

I've been pretty good up to this point. Sorry im not some super homer.

You keep knocking GoChiefs for his use of PFF stats, which is wrong of you. No, PFF is not the end-all-be-all for evaluation, but it's a tool.

You can't just dismiss stats in favor of your bias eye test. Instead, you use the tools together to evaluate.

Eye test would suggest that he lacks physicality, can't tackle and doesn't play the ball well, though it does look like he has good agility, speed and technique. That's just the eye test though. IDK what the PFF stats say, but if he's ranked 90th, maybe you should re-evaluate instead of just dismissing it.

[Kiimo]

The only two things I've seen about Gaines that worry me are the staying healthy part and the tackling part.

Young corners all have to learn to turn their head. It helps them in coverage and avoiding penalties at the same time. It is a coachable thing and not something to worry about at all.

He's going to be a very serviceable corner.

[Hammock Parties]

Originally Posted by Detoxing

I've been pretty good up to this point. Sorry im not some super homer.

You keep knocking GoChiefs for his use of PFF stats, which is wrong of you. No, PFF is not the end-all-be-all for evaluation, but it's a tool.

You can't just dismiss stats in favor of your bias eye test. Instead, you use the tools together to evaluate.

Eye test would suggest that he lacks physicality, can't tackle and doesn't play the ball well, though it does look like he has good agility, speed and technique. That's just the eye test though. IDK what the PFF stats say, but if he's ranked 90th, maybe you should re-evaluate instead of just dismissing it.

People want to dismiss PFF only because it says something they don't like.

It's spot on when grading Peters in the top 10 CBs, though!

[O.city]

Originally Posted by Detoxing

Every trait is important. He's good at making a receiver look covered until the ball is in the air.... he doesn't play the ball well.

And what he does do well, it's not like he's elite at it. He's solid.

Im not "down" on Philip Gaines, i'm just not jumping on the hype train and being dishonest about him because he's a Chief. He has a ton to prove. He lacks some serious physicality, lacks game changing ability, and he can't stay healthy.

We can all hope and wish he gets better, but that's not a guarantee.

The best way to keep completions from happening is to cover the intended wr keeping the qb from throwing the ball his way.

Thats the most important trait a corner can have, IMO. The others are important obviously, but first and foremost, stopping completions.

Will he ever be an all pro type corner? No, probably not. He has the physical attributes, but he's not going to be a ballhawk and rack up INT's or be a "good" tackler etc.

But in terms of preventing completions? Yeah, he can be really good at that.

[staylor26]

Originally Posted by Detoxing

I've been pretty good up to this point. Sorry im not some super homer.

You keep knocking GoChiefs for his use of PFF stats, which is wrong of you. No, PFF is not the end-all-be-all for evaluation, but it's a tool.

You can't just dismiss stats in favor of your bias eye test. Instead, you use the tools together to evaluate.

Eye test would suggest that he lacks physicality, can't tackle and doesn't play the ball well, though it does look like he has good agility, speed and technique. That's just the eye test though. IDK what the PFF stats say, but if he's ranked 90th, maybe you should re-evaluate instead of just dismissing it.

According to PFF, Nelson had his worst game of the season. Anybody with a clue that watched that game, along with the first three, will tell you it was his best.

Clay used PFF to tell us all how bad Sean Smith was when we signed him.

It's ****ing worthless, just like him.

[pugsnotdrugs19]

Peters and Gaines both did not practice today...

[ToxSocks]

Originally Posted by O.city

The best way to keep completions from happening is to cover the intended wr keeping the qb from throwing the ball his way.

Thats the most important trait a corner can have, IMO. The others are important obviously, but first and foremost, stopping completions.

Will he ever be an all pro type corner? No, probably not. He has the physical attributes, but he's not going to be a ballhawk and rack up INT's or be a "good" tackler etc.

But in terms of preventing completions? Yeah, he can be really good at that.

But he's not that good at that YET, is my point. To go along with his other inefficiencies.

I just hate that so many want to dismiss his inadequacies. In week one i was piled on and told that tackling doesn't really matter.... It matters if you're building a championship defense, because right now he can't control his outside lane in the running game.

So of course in week two he misses a wide open tackle in the backfield that allowed Houston to convert a key third down on their game winning drive. And NO HE WAS NOT BLOCKED so stop saying that shit. DJ was blocked, NOT Gaines. His inability to tackle cost the Chiefs a game already this season, but no one wants to talk about that. That was a huge play.

His inability to tackle allowed a huge run against SD....i mean....how long is it going to take before the homer glasses come off and realize he still has a long way to go? These things matter.

[Hammock Parties]

Good marks for Nelson, though.

27. Chiefs CB Steven Nelson has surrendered just 0.27 yards per coverage snap in the slot, the lowest for slot cornerbacks this season.

Nelson already has 102 coverage snaps in the slot this year, and in that time, he’s been thrown at 13 times. He’s only allowed four of those passes to be caught for 28 yards. For his first year as the Chiefs’ slot cornerback, that’s very impressive. The Steelers have been using receiver Eli Rogers in the slot. Rogers hasn’t been very effective this season, so that is one less receiving option Ben Roethlisberger can likely depend on.

[staylor26]

Originally Posted by ASS11

Phillip Gaines didn't "hold his own." He's currently PFFs 90th ranked CB in football.

I'm holding my preseason opinion: besides Peters, these guys are below average players and we'll be carved up this weekend.

Originally Posted by ASS11

Good marks for Nelson, though.

27. Chiefs CB Steven Nelson has surrendered just 0.27 yards per coverage snap in the slot, the lowest for slot cornerbacks this season.

Nelson already has 102 coverage snaps in the slot this year, and in that time, he’s been thrown at 13 times. He’s only allowed four of those passes to be caught for 28 yards. For his first year as the Chiefs’ slot cornerback, that’s very impressive. The Steelers have been using receiver Eli Rogers in the slot. Rogers hasn’t been very effective this season, so that is one less receiving option Ben Roethlisberger can likely depend on.

Proof that you base your takes on whatever PFF tells you. You literally just did a 180 because you read that. ****ing loser.

[Hammock Parties]

Originally Posted by staylor26

Proof that you base your takes on whatever PFF tells you. You literally just did a 180 because you read that. ****ing loser.

I still think he's below average. Good start, though. Could be a bad week for the entire secondary so brace yourself.

[staylor26]

Originally Posted by Detoxing

But he's not that good at that YET, is my point. To go along with his other inefficiencies.

I just hate that so many want to dismiss his inadequacies. In week one i was piled on and told that tackling doesn't really matter.... It matters if you're building a championship defense, because right now he can't control his outside lane in the running game.

So of course in week two he misses a wide open tackle in the backfield that allowed Houston to convert a key third down on their game winning drive. And NO HE WAS NOT BLOCKED so stop saying that shit. DJ was blocked, NOT Gaines. His inability to tackle cost the Chiefs a game already this season, but no one wants to talk about that. That was a huge play.

His inability to tackle allowed a huge run against SD....i mean....how long is it going to take before the homer glasses come off and realize he still has a long way to go? These things matter.

Maybe, just maybe, your expectations are way too high for a guy coming back from an ACL tear, making the move to RCB with little experience regardless, and going up against the likes of Allen/Benjamin/Fuller/Hopkins/Decker/Marshall.

All things considered, he's looked pretty ****ing good.

[staylor26]

Originally Posted by ASS11

I still think he's below average. Good start, though. Could be a bad week for the entire secondary so brace yourself.

In what ****ing universe is playing extremely well in your first 3 starts "below average"?

[ToxSocks]

Originally Posted by staylor26

Maybe, just maybe, your expectations are way too high for a guy coming back from an ACL tear, making the move to RCB with little experience regardless, and going up against the likes of Allen/Benjamin/Fuller/Hopkins/Decker/Marshall.

All things considered, he's looked pretty ****ing good.

Or maybe the praise is just too high?

All things considered, no i don't think he's looked "pretty ****ing good". "pretty ****ing good" is strong praise. He's looked adequate in coverage, and sub par in everything else.