I really like our corners right now.

[Direckshun]

I realize I'm probably going to regret saying this as Big Ben can legitimately carve up even elite secondaries, but two guys have me super impressed, aside from the usual amazing Marcus Peters:

Phillip Gaines. He's got some technique to clean up on, but he's started this season against Hopkins/Fuller and Marshall/Decker (we'll ignore the Chargers, since Keenan Allen was beating the shit out of Peters Week 1) and held his own. These WRs are more savvy than him right now but I'm getting flashbacks to when we started Brandon Carr for his rookie year -- he'll only get better as he gets more experience. His recovery speed is awesome, and he's almost always in the receiver's pocket.

Steven Nelson. What a shock to the system this guy has been -- the staff has handled him absolutely perfectly. Redshirting him last year was just the perfect thing to do, because his versatility in the secondary this year is invaluable. He's playing 100% of the snaps because we can put him on the outside and in the slot, shifting him all over the place on every drive. While, for now, we also play him a lot on special teams. Nelson has challenged everything, and seems to have the superior technique over Gaines. Nelson is also incredibly demonstrative and energetic on the field -- a perfect pairing with Peters, and that is turning out to be a 3rd rounder well spent.

DJ White, also. We have to talk about this kid. He's played like 12 defensive snaps for us so far this year and has made plays on roughly half of them. Like Nelson, he is an incredible competitor and so energetic on the field. His play against the Chargers (on his one snap!) was around the time the defense woke up. I love this kid, I think he's a pistol and he should definitely be in the rotation in dime packages over Sorensen.

The Russell thing still makes no sense to me, but it's really regretful that he didn't wake the **** up because having yet another young corner who can play would have really bulked up this secondary.

My favorite thing about this secondary is my favorite thing about our offensive line, our defensive line, our receivers, and our passrush: barring any tragic injuries, they're going to be so much better in Week 17 than they are now. They'll learn with our great coaching staff, they'll develop with playing time, and they'll gel better as a unit and as Sutton figures out where all the pieces fit.

If we can at least limp into the playoffs with a fully healthy Houston in January, we can hang with absolutely AFC team -- except perhaps the Pats, who seem to have successfully hacked the game of football.

That's our ceiling, though. Pretty exciting.

[Hammock Parties]

Originally Posted by staylor26

I'm not acting like an ethug

I would love to slap the **** outta you though.

[O.city]

The good news is, tackling is something that can be taught, if you've got the nuts to want to tackle. Gaines seems like a willing tackler, for the most part.

He's a third rounder coming off an ACL tear. Considering what or how I thought this secondary would be, I've been pleasantly surprised.

I still contend that tackling for a cornerback is down the list of things he has to be good at. Give me a guy that can be a great cover corner and an average at best tackler than vice versa.

[Easy 6]

Originally Posted by Detoxing

Re-watch the play. Please. DJ was late, but he took on the block. Gaines had a free shot at the carrier and did what he always does....stick his arm out....

Now explain to me how DJ makes that tackle for Gaines.....

Is your argument, "Hey, had DJ been there he coulda made the tackle"?

Sure. That's probably true. But that doesn't excuse Gaines for not making the tackle. He has to make that play. Are we building a Championship D or not?

I made this observation in week ONE and told i was full of shit, then we saw it rear its ugly head in week two, and it cost the team a chance at the end.

We're only 3 games into the season and my concerns have already been validated.

He needs to tackle like a man, or we're going to see screens and runs in his direction a lot more often.

I've seen Gaines miss some tackles, and I've also seen him plow through receivers to take down tight ends... you're acting like he doesn't even try, that's bull

He is a lightly built guy, and probably isn't quite 100% yet on top of it, so I will deal with the occasional miss as long as receivers continue wearing him like a cape

[O.city]

For every position there are certain abilities that you have to be baseline competent at to succeed, if you're good at other more important ones.

Like a qb has to be able to read the field, pocket presense etc above arm strength. There's a baseline arm strength that you've gotta have in the league to play qb, and being above it is great.

But as we've seen on numerous occasions, arm strength for a qb isn't a top of the list importance.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

I don't know which Mod changed the forum name to Overreaction Planet, but threads like these are a good indicator of why they would.

[O.city]

https://twitter.com/JohnMiddlekauff/...69836468080640

Well, Sean smith seems to have improved his tackling

[Easy 6]

I've honestly lost track of how many times QBs have doinked throws right off of Gaines back and head, he is almost always that close to his assignment... you almost never see a receiver clown him and break 5 yards free of him

Thats much more important to me than him being some monster tackler

[staylor26]

Originally Posted by O.city

https://twitter.com/JohnMiddlekauff/...69836468080640

Well, Sean smith seems to have improved his tackling

Wait, other much more expensive corners miss tackles too?

No ****ing way.

[O.city]

I think detox is getting at what I was as well. He doesn't have to be a good tackler, but he needs to be adequate.

Depends on everyone's view of adequate I guess

[RunKC]

I actually like Nelson playing on the outside bc he's the best tackling corner on the team and his coverage skills hav looked better and better every week.
Gaines is a perfect nickel guy. He's the kinda guy you need to shadow guys like Emmanuel Sanders and Julian Edelman. He's a sticky corner who is always on his man.

I'm happy with the results so far. The depth is significantly better than last year.

[Nickhead]

says the man in a round room!

[O.city]

Originally Posted by RunKC

I actually like Nelson playing on the outside bc he's the best tackling corner on the team and his coverage skills hav looked better and better every week.
Gaines is a perfect nickel guy. He's the kinda guy you need to shadow guys like Emmanuel Sanders and Julian Edelman. He's a sticky corner who is always on his man.

I'm happy with the results so far. The depth is significantly better than last year.

I'd actually rather have my better tackling guy at the nuckel, but I don't know if Nelson has the physical ability to cover those type of quick guys.

[ToxSocks]

Originally Posted by Easy 6

I've seen Gaines miss some tackles, and I've also seen him plow through receivers to take down tight ends... you're acting like he doesn't even try, that's bull

He is a lightly built guy, and probably isn't quite 100% yet on top of it, so I will deal with the occasional miss as long as receivers continue wearing him like a cape

Originally Posted by Easy 6

I've honestly lost track of how many times QBs have doinked throws right off of Gaines back and head, he is almost always that close to his assignment... you almost never see a receiver clown him and break 5 yards free of him

Thats much more important to me than him being some monster tackler

Don't misunderstand my argument.

Im not saying he's not willing. Im not saying i need him to be a monster tackler. Im asking him to be an adequate, competent tackler.

Right now, he's the worst tackler i've seen the Chiefs field this season.

My entire argument is very simple and understandable, don't let ****-nuts Staylor misconstrue you with his strawman bullshit.

Im tired of my argument, and his weakness, being excused because of his allegedly great cover skills.

Im fine with his cover skills, but lets not blow that shit out or proportion either, and its NOT an excuse for his lacking in other departments.

Assholes like Staylor keep dismissing his dismal tackling because supposedly he's some great cover corner, even trying to draw comparisons to Deion Sanders

I'm saying his dismal tackling is going to bite us in the ass. It's going to cost this defense opportunities to get off the field.

And WE'VE ALREADY SEEN IT. You can't argue against something that's already happened!

That makes no ****ing sense.

[ToxSocks]

Originally Posted by RunKC

I actually like Nelson playing on the outside bc he's the best tackling corner on the team and his coverage skills hav looked better and better every week.
Gaines is a perfect nickel guy. He's the kinda guy you need to shadow guys like Emmanuel Sanders and Julian Edelman. He's a sticky corner who is always on his man.

I'm happy with the results so far. The depth is significantly better than last year.

You typically want your nickels to be good tacklers. Nelson is a better tackler than Gaines for sure.

[ToxSocks]

Originally Posted by O.city

Depends on everyone's view of adequate I guess

To me, adequate means you have the ability to wrap up. If you have a guy one on one, you should win more often than not. You're not going to make every tackle obviously, but you should win more than you lose. Gaines loses more than he wins.

Gaines' problem is his technique. It's almost like he tries to clothesline defenders at their legs. If you're gonna dive low, then put your shoulder into it.

Don't wanna put your shoulder into it? Then at least wrap up a leg.

What you CAN'T do, is stick your arm out so your bicep bounces off their thigh pad. He's done that too many times through the first 2 games. That's not adequate.

We watched him do it several times against San Diego and we watched him do it against Houston.

That is a problem that needs to be fixed. And his coverage skills aren't so amazing that the Chiefs can simply learn to live with it.