Chiefs I really like our corners right now. - Page 12

Direckshun · 09-29-2016, 07:04 AM

I realize I'm probably going to regret saying this as Big Ben can legitimately carve up even elite secondaries, but two guys have me super impressed, aside from the usual amazing Marcus Peters:

Phillip Gaines. He's got some technique to clean up on, but he's started this season against Hopkins/Fuller and Marshall/Decker (we'll ignore the Chargers, since Keenan Allen was beating the shit out of Peters Week 1) and held his own. These WRs are more savvy than him right now but I'm getting flashbacks to when we started Brandon Carr for his rookie year -- he'll only get better as he gets more experience. His recovery speed is awesome, and he's almost always in the receiver's pocket.

Steven Nelson. What a shock to the system this guy has been -- the staff has handled him absolutely perfectly. Redshirting him last year was just the perfect thing to do, because his versatility in the secondary this year is invaluable. He's playing 100% of the snaps because we can put him on the outside and in the slot, shifting him all over the place on every drive. While, for now, we also play him a lot on special teams. Nelson has challenged everything, and seems to have the superior technique over Gaines. Nelson is also incredibly demonstrative and energetic on the field -- a perfect pairing with Peters, and that is turning out to be a 3rd rounder well spent.

DJ White, also. We have to talk about this kid. He's played like 12 defensive snaps for us so far this year and has made plays on roughly half of them. Like Nelson, he is an incredible competitor and so energetic on the field. His play against the Chargers (on his one snap!) was around the time the defense woke up. I love this kid, I think he's a pistol and he should definitely be in the rotation in dime packages over Sorensen.

The Russell thing still makes no sense to me, but it's really regretful that he didn't wake the **** up because having yet another young corner who can play would have really bulked up this secondary.

My favorite thing about this secondary is my favorite thing about our offensive line, our defensive line, our receivers, and our passrush: barring any tragic injuries, they're going to be so much better in Week 17 than they are now. They'll learn with our great coaching staff, they'll develop with playing time, and they'll gel better as a unit and as Sutton figures out where all the pieces fit.

If we can at least limp into the playoffs with a fully healthy Houston in January, we can hang with absolutely AFC team -- except perhaps the Pats, who seem to have successfully hacked the game of football.

That's our ceiling, though. Pretty exciting.

**Mr. Flopnuts** · 09-29-2016, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by staylor26

I'm much more capable of being critical than KnowMo. I just don't have ridiculous expectations, so I haven't been disappointed with this regime yet. When I am, believe me, everybody will know .

If I were KnowMo, I'd be hyping up Tyler Bray, for example.

Fair enough bro. I wasn't trying to be critical, I enjoy your posts. Folks around here can attest that I'm pretty blunt if I don't like someone. Same as you. I save my passive aggressive bullshit for DC. That's the only place I troll much anymore.

staylor26 · 09-29-2016, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Flopnuts

The reason I think you're being too hard on him is because of his age and actual game experience. He's raw IMO. That's natural. That's all I'm saying.

That's all I'm saying too. He's just blowing it out of proportion, probably because one of his missed tackles (and the one he's most focused on) just happened to come at a crucial moment of the game. A game in which just about every other Chief on the field made a bad play that could've made a difference.

Let him tell it, and I'm over here saying Gaines is the next Deion, but a WAY better tackler.

O.city · 09-29-2016, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Detoxing

And i think i've been very fair regarding Gaines. I've noted his speed, quickness, and his ability to stick to a receiver. I have NO ISSUE declaring positive traits.

I also have no issue declaring negative traits, which Staylor can't stand to hear.

I simply hate the way certain posters act as if tackling isn't important for corners. It absolutely ****ing is, as demonstrated by the Houston game, and certain plays in the SD game.

And no, i am not referring to the Travis Benjamin play that Staylor keeps harping about.

I don't give a shit about that play and that play was never the reason i called out Gaines for his tackling. I attacked that play only when ****nuts thought it was worthy of praise.

My railing against Gaines in that SD games had nothing to do with that T. Benjamin play.

Tackling for a corner isn't as important as being able to cover. That's the baseline for my argument

ToxSocks · 09-29-2016, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Flopnuts

The reason I think you're being too hard on him is because of his age and actual game experience. He's raw IMO. That's natural. That's all I'm saying.

I don't think im being hard on him at all.

Have i called him bad?

Have i said he was shit?

Have i said he shouldn't be starting?

I've never said anything like that. That's all hyperbole brought on by ****nuts Staylor.

What i said is that he's a poor tackler and has never been a ballhawk. I said i want to see him improve on those parts of his game because right now he's an incomplete player. I've said that those deficiencies are going to cost this team from time to time so he needs to fix them in order for this defense to play at a championship level, and i have provided a solid example of that.

That's what i've been saying this ENTIRE time.

It's not my fault Staylor has such a hard on for every player on the roster that he has to contort my position.

ToxSocks · 09-29-2016, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

Tackling for a corner isn't as important as being able to cover. That's the baseline for my argument

Until of course it costs the defense a chance to get off the field, right?

I agree, it's not AS important. But it's still important.

As i've been saying for the past 3 weeks, im not asking him to be Antoine Winfield....i'm asking him to stop trying to tackle with one ****ing arm.

ToxSocks · 09-29-2016, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by staylor26

That's all I'm saying too. He's just blowing it out of proportion, probably because one of his missed tackles (and the one he's most focused on) just happened to come at a crucial moment of the game. A game in which just about every other Chief on the field made a bad play that could've made a difference.

Let him tell it, and I'm over here saying Gaines is the next Deion, but a WAY better tackler.

Now why would i be focused on a crucial missed tackle (and missed coverage)?

Think loooong and hard about that one.....

Again, i brought this to your attention in WEEK ONE. I said he needs to clean that up or this COULD cost this team moving forward.

What was your response to that? "Oh bullshit, you don't know! You're blowing it out of proportion"

And then what happened in week two?

Maybe YOU shouldn't blow off a valid concern.....

ToxSocks · 09-29-2016, 04:59 PM

"It just happened to happen at a crucial moment of the game..."

THAT'S THE WHOLE ****ING POINT YOU IDIOT

Hence my WEEK ONE comments about him needing to clean that shit up before it costs this team....

"Oh but it's just being blown out of proportion"

**Costs team a chance at a win**

Crickets....

O.city · 09-29-2016, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Detoxing

Until of course it costs the defense a chance to get off the field, right?

I agree, it's not AS important. But it's still important.

As i've been saying for the past 3 weeks, im not asking him to be Antoine Winfield....i'm asking him to stop trying to tackle with one ****ing arm.

It's a game of value. Being able to cover is more valuable
Over the long haul than tackling for a corner.

They do need to be average tacklers atleast though and I agree he's a shaky tackler at best

ToxSocks · 09-29-2016, 05:02 PM

It's not important until it affects the outcome of a game....

And then it's still not important....

Players needing to make plays that affect the outcome of a game is not important!

ToxSocks · 09-29-2016, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

They do need to be average tacklers atleast though and I agree he's a shaky tackler at best

So then stop arguing with me?

Sandy Vagina · 09-29-2016, 05:04 PM

It's time, guys... it's time...

O.city · 09-29-2016, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Detoxing

So then stop arguing with me?

You're overstating the importance of corner back tackling and the amount of impact it has.

Yes, his missed tackle there allowed them to get in field goal range. Timing of it sucks, sure.

But it doesn't diminish what I'm saying.

ToxSocks · 09-29-2016, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

You're overstating the importance of corner back tackling and the amount of impact it has.

Yes, his missed tackle there allowed them to get in field goal range. Timing of it sucks, sure.

Think about what you're saying there.

The goal, obviously is to win.

When a player has a deficiency that prevents you from winning, how is that NOT impactful?

When a defense can't get off the field because a player can't make a key play, how is that NOT impactful?

If a team loses a game because a player with a deficiency fails in that category, how is that NOT impactful.

If the goal is to win, and you don't win because a player is lacking in an area that gets exposed, how is that NOT impactful?

You're undervaluing tackling when it's very valuable.

You claim that im over valuing the importance of tackling yet i'd say that 3rd down play was pretty ****ing important. And those plays vs SD that went for 1st downs were pretty important, as they led to scoring drives.

If Gaines makes that play in Houston, the offense gets the ball back. Is that not impactful?

ToxSocks · 09-29-2016, 05:18 PM

I mean, you guys are telling me it's not that valuable, but i think the first two games gives a clear demonstration of how valuable it really is.

Now maybe we just take that for granted, i don't know.

O.city · 09-29-2016, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Detoxing

Think about what you're saying there.

The goal, obviously is to win.

When a player has a deficiency that prevents you from winning, how is that NOT impactful?

When a defense can't get off the field because a player can't make a key play, how is that NOT impactful?

If a team loses a game because a player with a deficiency fails in that category, how is that NOT impactful.

If the goal is to win, and you don't win because a player is lacking in an area that gets exposed, how is that NOT impactful?

You're undervaluing tackling when it's very valuable.

You claim that im over valuing the importance of tackling yet i'd say that 3rd down play was pretty ****ing important. And those plays vs SD that went for 1st downs were pretty important, as they led to scoring drives.

If Gaines makes that play in Houston, the offense gets the ball back. Is that not impactful?

A single play is too tough to determine a tacklers ability though. Had dj or houston or berry missed that tackle there, it doesn't diminish them as a tackler. Over the long haul of a season, we know they can tackle.

In terms of importance to a football team, a cornerback being able to cover and prevent completions is more important from a value they bring to the team standpoint than their ability to tackle.

With the amount of passing that goes on in the league, it's important.

Tackling is obviously important. I'm not arguing it's not. But it's not up there at the top of things a corner HAS to excel at.

09-29-2016, 07:04 AM
Direckshun __ Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Springpatch Casino cash: $2033447	I really like our corners right now. I realize I'm probably going to regret saying this as Big Ben can legitimately carve up even elite secondaries, but two guys have me super impressed, aside from the usual amazing Marcus Peters: Phillip Gaines. He's got some technique to clean up on, but he's started this season against Hopkins/Fuller and Marshall/Decker (we'll ignore the Chargers, since Keenan Allen was beating the shit out of Peters Week 1) and held his own. These WRs are more savvy than him right now but I'm getting flashbacks to when we started Brandon Carr for his rookie year -- he'll only get better as he gets more experience. His recovery speed is awesome, and he's almost always in the receiver's pocket. Steven Nelson. What a shock to the system this guy has been -- the staff has handled him absolutely perfectly. Redshirting him last year was just the perfect thing to do, because his versatility in the secondary this year is invaluable. He's playing 100% of the snaps because we can put him on the outside and in the slot, shifting him all over the place on every drive. While, for now, we also play him a lot on special teams. Nelson has challenged everything, and seems to have the superior technique over Gaines. Nelson is also incredibly demonstrative and energetic on the field -- a perfect pairing with Peters, and that is turning out to be a 3rd rounder well spent. DJ White, also. We have to talk about this kid. He's played like 12 defensive snaps for us so far this year and has made plays on roughly half of them. Like Nelson, he is an incredible competitor and so energetic on the field. His play against the Chargers (on his one snap!) was around the time the defense woke up. I love this kid, I think he's a pistol and he should definitely be in the rotation in dime packages over Sorensen. The Russell thing still makes no sense to me, but it's really regretful that he didn't wake the **** up because having yet another young corner who can play would have really bulked up this secondary. My favorite thing about this secondary is my favorite thing about our offensive line, our defensive line, our receivers, and our passrush: barring any tragic injuries, they're going to be so much better in Week 17 than they are now. They'll learn with our great coaching staff, they'll develop with playing time, and they'll gel better as a unit and as Sutton figures out where all the pieces fit. If we can at least limp into the playoffs with a fully healthy Houston in January, we can hang with absolutely AFC team -- except perhaps the Pats, who seem to have successfully hacked the game of football. That's our ceiling, though. Pretty exciting.
Posts: 59,693

09-29-2016, 04:59 PM	#172
ToxSocks Needs more middle fingers Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: San Diego Casino cash: $2033063	"It just happened to happen at a crucial moment of the game..." THAT'S THE WHOLE **ING POINT YOU IDIOT Hence my WEEK ONE comments about him needing to clean that shit up before it costs this team.... "Oh but it's just being blown out of proportion" Costs team a chance at a win** Crickets.... __________________ Life is like a dick. Sometimes it gets hard for no reason, but it can't stay hard forever.
Posts: 65,925

09-29-2016, 05:02 PM	#174
ToxSocks Needs more middle fingers Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: San Diego Casino cash: $2033063	It's not important until it affects the outcome of a game.... And then it's still not important.... Players needing to make plays that affect the outcome of a game is not important! __________________ Life is like a dick. Sometimes it gets hard for no reason, but it can't stay hard forever.
Posts: 65,925

09-29-2016, 05:18 PM	#179
ToxSocks Needs more middle fingers Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: San Diego Casino cash: $2033063	I mean, you guys are telling me it's not that valuable, but i think the first two games gives a clear demonstration of how valuable it really is. Now maybe we just take that for granted, i don't know. __________________ Life is like a dick. Sometimes it gets hard for no reason, but it can't stay hard forever.
Posts: 65,925