Chiefs focused on Mahomes, McCaffrey, and Cunningham in RD1

[Chief Northman]

Draft pundits answer me this:

Why is Kizer getting shit on for a lack of success in South Bend last season when he was clearly surrounded by less talent, and his head coach played mind games with him? You look at Mahomes who garnered hyper-Madden stats last season but the Red Raiders finish 5-7, and Mahomes had a chance to win a couple of those games late but could not. Please spare me the "bad defense" argument.

The same arguments used to tear down one prospect are being ignored to apply to another.

This must be a super tough qb class to evaluate and project. I've been on the fence with Kizer. He might have the highest ceiling of the bunch, but there is something about his character that turns me off. His measurables and ability to throw the ball are fantastic and he is intelligent as well. But I am at a loss as to what type of leader this guy will be.

On the other hand you have Mahomes who intrigues people with his arm talent and athleticism. He seems to be a bright enough kid, but when you watch game tape, for as many times as he excites with the plays he makes, you are also cringing at some of the decisions and 50-50 balls he puts up. His mechanics are not pretty and he evidently needs a ton of refinement. There seem to be little to no concerns about his ability to lead.

In the end I think you have two promising prospects that are unfortunately being treated very differently by media types.

[ToxSocks]

Originally Posted by Chief Northman

. Please spare me the "bad defense" argument.

Why? Because you don't want to hear it? When your defense allows 60+ points in 3 different games, yeah you're gonna lose. Not even Peyton Manning would be winning.

You're basically saying, "Sure, our offense/Qb put up 50+ points, but it's their fault we lost".

Pretty shitty argument you have there.

Fact is, Kizer has ONE season of starting experience and it was very average. That's why he's not talked about as much.

And while Mahomes has some cringe worthy throws, he also has a ton of "wow" moments. He has some traits are unique and and stands out. Kizer rarely ever "wows" you.

[Chief Northman]

Originally Posted by Detoxing

Why? Because you don't want to hear it? When your defense allows 60+ points in 3 different games, yeah you're gonna lose. Not even Peyton Manning would be winning.

You're basically saying, "Sure, our offense/Qb put up 50+ points, but it's their fault we lost".

Pretty shitty argument you have there.

Fact is, Kizer has ONE season of starting experience and it was very average. That's why he's not talked about as much.

And while Mahomes has some cringe worthy throws, he also has a ton of "wow" moments. He has some traits are unique and and stands out. Kizer rarely ever "wows" you.

Not a shitty argument at all. The point is, what will happen when Mahomes has to face a competent defense? - because he never did in college. He had some opportunities to win games with the ball last. Success at times, not others. My point is a big knock on Kizer is the team record. Not sure why this does not apply to Mahomes. Yes his defense was shit, but they had oppotunities to win despite that defense.

Kizer was a starter for two seasons btw - even if he wasn't named as such last season, he carried the mail for a far less talented group compared to his 2015 team.

[ToxSocks]

Originally Posted by Chief Northman

Not a shitty argument at all. The point is, what will happen when Mahomes has to face a competent defense? - because he never did in college. He had some opportunities to win games with the ball last. Success at times, not others. My point is a big knock on Kizer is the team record. Not sure why this does not apply to Mahomes. Yes his defense was shit, but they had oppotunities to win despite that defense.

Kizer was a starter for two seasons btw - even if he wasn't named as such last season, he carried the mail for a far less talented group compared to his 2015 team.

Well, it's a crap shoot. We don't really know how any of these QB's will respond to an NFL defense.

All we can do is take their positive traits and ask if they're NFL suitable, and take the negative traits and ask if they're coachable.

Personally, i don't think a knock on Kizer is his team record. I don't recall ever actually reading or hearing that either.

Seems your concern is about Mahomes' attention and Kizer's lack thereof.

Remember who Mahomes' agent is: Leigh Steinberg.

There's a reason you're seeing Mahomes' face plastered all over T.V.....the man has a promotion master, super agent.

[Chief Northman]

Originally Posted by Detoxing

Well, it's a crap shoot. We don't really know how any of these QB's will respond to an NFL defense.

All we can do is take their positive traits and ask if they're NFL suitable, and take the negative traits and ask if they're coachable.

Personally, i don't think a knock on Kizer is his team record. I don't recall ever actually reading or hearing that either.

Seems your concern is about Mahomes' attention and Kizer's lack thereof.

Remember who Mahomes' agent is: Leigh Steinberg.

There's a reason you're seeing Mahomes' face plastered all over T.V.....the man has a promotion master, super agent.

That is a great point about Steinberg.

The Kelly comments about Kizer have not helped him either and I'm baffled as to why he was so negative regarding Kizer's readiness. You can say a prospect could have used another year in college all you want, but to add that he was immature on and off the field is probably better discussed in private conversations with management types. Kelly likely hurt his own ability to recruit prospects by making comments like that public.

I have heard and read a few draft analysts use a lacklustre season at Notre Dame as a reason to knock Kizer - more specifically compared to his 2015 season. They see it as a regression, which it was, but to counter that there is not as much talk about a huge drop in talent surrounding him last season.

Marketability is a big thing. I get the impression sometimes that the league wants certain prospects to end up in certain cities to be their face. One attraction I have with regards to DeShaun Watson is that Papa John's has already signed him up! Doesn't that guarantee you a Super Bowl appearance somewhere down the line?

[kccrow]

Originally Posted by Chief Northman

Draft pundits answer me this:

Why is Kizer getting shit on for a lack of success in South Bend last season when he was clearly surrounded by less talent, and his head coach played mind games with him? You look at Mahomes who garnered hyper-Madden stats last season but the Red Raiders finish 5-7, and Mahomes had a chance to win a couple of those games late but could not. Please spare me the "bad defense" argument.

The same arguments used to tear down one prospect are being ignored to apply to another.

This must be a super tough qb class to evaluate and project. I've been on the fence with Kizer. He might have the highest ceiling of the bunch, but there is something about his character that turns me off. His measurables and ability to throw the ball are fantastic and he is intelligent as well. But I am at a loss as to what type of leader this guy will be.

On the other hand you have Mahomes who intrigues people with his arm talent and athleticism. He seems to be a bright enough kid, but when you watch game tape, for as many times as he excites with the plays he makes, you are also cringing at some of the decisions and 50-50 balls he puts up. His mechanics are not pretty and he evidently needs a ton of refinement. There seem to be little to no concerns about his ability to lead.

In the end I think you have two promising prospects that are unfortunately being treated very differently by media types.

Mahomes' accuracy on intermediate routes, especially to the outside, was appreciably better, his willingness to put balls into tight windows is better, his release is much faster and his decision time to let it fly was much faster, his decision making on most passes was slightly better, and he visibly showed hat he is a willing and energetic leader of the team. Other than that, they have very similar things to work on.