Chiefs Patrick Mahomes Might Force Chiefs Hand In 2017 - Page 6

**DaneMcCloud** · 08-21-2017, 12:10 PM

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/s...-hand-in-2017/

Patrick Mahomes might force Chiefs hand in 2017

The much-lamented quarterback class of 2017 is looking pretty good all of a sudden. Mitchell Trubisky is pushing the Bears decision-making process as much as John Fox can be pushed, Deshaun Watson is going to make Bill O'Brien at least think about his Week 1 status and, most interestingly, Patrick Mahomes has found himself in a perfect situation and is turning heads early.
Do you love Mahomes and consider him the most upside-riddled quarterback of this draft class? Congratulations! You are not actually a special snowflake. Everyone does. Mahomes has a cannon. It's unfair for Alex Smith, a genuinely nice human being who is an average-to-above average quarterback, that he finds himself once again squaring off against a young physical marvel on the depth chart. The good news for Smith is he looks really good this preseason. The bad news is so does Mahomes. Before we get to that, though, how much pressure can this guy actually put on Andy Reid? History tells us there is a good deal Mahomes could do to press Reid into playing him.

Reid waited a while to hand the starting job to the the first quarterback he ever drafted, Donovan McNabb, after taking the Syracuse product No. 2 overall in 1999. And when he finally did, in Week 10, the Eagles were out of the playoff race, sitting at 2-7. After letting McNab take his lumps in a relief role, it was time to see what the highly-drafted rookie had to offer as a full-time starter. McNabb got a rough welcome to the NFL when he made his NFL debut against the Bucs in Week 2, getting sacked six times by the eventual NFC Central champions (remember that this Bucs team was the basis for the eventual Super Bowl championship defense). In a fun twist of fate, the guy McNabb replaced as the starter was Doug Pederson, who is the current Eagles coach and former offensive coordinator for Alex Smith.

Andy Reid waited until Week 10 of Donovan McNabb's rookie season before naming him the starter. Two years later, Reid selected A.J. Feeley in the fifth round of the 2001 NFL Draft. That's not notable for Feeley being a guy who might have taken playing time, but he is another quarterback in a long list of Reid protégés who ended up being traded for a high draft pick. The point being, when Andy Reid latches onto a quarterback in the draft, people take notice. Reid went a long time between taking McNabb early and grabbing another quarterback. Again, notable. If Reid is spending high draft capital on a quarterback, there should be a belief he can win with said quarterback for a long time. He also probably thinks that quarterback is capable of winning and/or playing early. Patrick Mahomes was the 12th player drafted.

Kevin Kolb was the second quarterback taken by Reid with a high pick in his Eagles tenure. Kolb was taken out of Houston with a second-round pick in 2007 (the Eagles actually traded down out of the first round with the Cowboys who took Anthony Spencer). He didn't replace McNabb immediately, but Kolb is also a clear-cut historical marker in terms of Reid making sure he has quarterback insurance. McNabb was battling injuries during that stretch, coming off the Super Bowl loss to the Patriots, and would be gone after 2009.

That year featured a storm of controversy, too, with Michael Vick and Kolb nipping on McNabb's heels for playing time. Ultimately it was McNabb's team, but with Vick and Kolb on the roster, there were plenty of people chirping to see the other options. The backup quarterback is always the most popular guy in town, and that's been the case for Andy Reid's teams in the past.
Vick and Kolb ran the team in 2010 after McNabb left and then Kolb was traded. The "Dream Team" of 2011 followed, but it wouldn't be long before a draft pick caused trouble on the roster again. Nick Foles, taken in the third round of the 2012 NFL Draft, was firmly entrenched in Reid-style controversy within his first year. Foles started six games for Reid in 2012 and that led to serious concern about who should start in 2013, when Foles went 8-2 as a starter under Chip Kelly.

Ultimately what you see from Reid is a history of high draft picks playing early. McNabb was under center three quarters of the way through the season in his rookie year. Kolb was held at bay, but McNabb aged better than Reid expected and it still ended in McNabb being dealt to the Redskins. The Michael Vick thing was a different animal. Er, situation. Foles played quickly, starting multiple games his first year. Which brings us back to Mahomes, who has looked just absolutely tools-y this preseason. Mahomes, who played in Kliff Kingsbury's system at Texas Tech, is going to require some refinement. But he has everything you would want to see in a quarterback from a physical perspective. If you buy into Reid developing quarterbacks -- and why wouldn't you? -- Mahomes is a fascinating prospect. He has underrated speed and is strong enough too take hits and still make throws.

Mahomes is faster and stronger than just about everyone on the field. As a quarterback that is an undeniable advantage. He can shrug off blitzers but he can also deftly evade people coming at him on the rush. And if he needs to, Mahomes can whip a quick throw on short notice. All that is well and good, but the downside of Mahomes is he's not harnessed right now either. He can be, and it's easy to see Reid figuring out how. Mahomes might be a stronger, slightly slower, more twitchy version of McNabb with a better arm. Alex Smith is on notice, although he knew that coming into the preseason. The guess here, two weeks into the season, is that Smith won't lose his job as long as the Chiefs are winning.

If Kansas City falters or the offense looks flat, don't be surprised to see Mahomes. Reid's history makes it clear he is willing to run with a young talent he trusted in the draft. He believes in his quarterback development almost as much as he believes in his talent evaluation. Maybe more.

BryanBusby · 08-21-2017, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Ramik Wilson was drafted in 2015, same as RNR. Neither will be eligible for UFA until 2019.

KPL was injured and spent most of his rookie season on IR, so I don't think he'll have enough credited years to become an UFA in 2018.

Again, the Chiefs don't value the ILB position so I'd expect Veach to draft a guy in the late rounds again.

The Chiefs have used the 5th year option on Ford, so he's a Chief until the end of 2018. If he plays well this year, I'd imagine they'll extend him at some point but regardless, they aren't hitting the free agency and dumping $12-15 million on a guy opposite of Houston.

Never said they were breaking the bank in FA for an OLB. They will draft one and what happens with Ford will determine where in the draft that happens.

Yeah some of these guys will be RFA's, but RFA contracts add up depending how they are tagged. Ideally they get a solid vet to back up Pat, and those cost also.

They can fill these holes all up, but will need to jettison Alex and his 20m cap hit to do it. They can't carry the hit into August for a mid-rounder at best and have him vulturing valuable snaps. That's before mentioning it would be a shitty move by the Chiefs.

And finally, Veech isn't Dorsey and we have no idea how he values ILB.

L.A. Chieffan · 08-21-2017, 03:13 PM

Not a good writer.

**DaneMcCloud** · 08-21-2017, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BryanBusby

Never said they were breaking the bank in FA for an OLB. They will draft one and what happens with Ford will determine where in the draft that happens.

Dude, again, they have Ford under control until the end of 2018. They don't have a 1st rounder in 2018 and even if Ford replicates his 2017 performance, they may wait for 2019 to take a guy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BryanBusby

Yeah some of these guys will be RFA's, but RFA contracts add up depending how they are tagged. Ideally they get a solid vet to back up Pat, and those cost also.

Okay, 3rd year players aren't "tagged". There's a wage scale. For 3rd year players in 2018, it's $705k.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BryanBusby

They can fill these holes all up, but will need to jettison Alex and his 20m cap hit to do it.

Absolutely false. Plus, cutting Smith only opens up $17 million in 2018 because there's a $3 million dollar Dead Cap hit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BryanBusby

They can't carry the hit into August for a mid-rounder at best and have him vulturing valuable snaps. That's before mentioning it would be a shitty move by the Chiefs.

That's just silly. Alex Smith is worth at least a 3rd round pick and if they cut him, there's no Comp Pick. The wise move is to get something in return if he's not the clear cut starter in 2018.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BryanBusby

And finally, Veech isn't Dorsey and we have no idea how he values ILB.

It's not about Veach or Dorsey, it's about the defensive scheme.

Marcellus · 08-21-2017, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frazod

In the past 15 years, only twice have there have been AFC quarterbacks in the Super Bowl not named Manning, Brady or Roethlisberger.

Twice. Do you see any sort of ****ing pattern there?

Not sure at this point who the next generation's going to include, but I'd rather be one of the few, because being one of the many sucks. And I'd rather they started ASAP, because I'm not getting any younger.

HOF talent is the pattern, not refs giving preference on calls.

**Baby Lee** · 08-21-2017, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frazod

In the past 15 years, only twice have there have been AFC quarterbacks in the Super Bowl not named Manning, Brady or Roethlisberger.

Twice. Do you see any sort of ****ing pattern there?

Not sure at this point who the next generation's going to include, but I'd rather be one of the few, because being one of the many sucks. And I'd rather they started ASAP, because I'm not getting any younger.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcellus

HOF talent is the pattern, not refs giving preference on calls.

Exactly. I want Mahomes to win multiple SBs for the Chiefs.

That doesn't mean I want the Chiefs to win a ****ING THING because league and referee interests decided giving it to them would help generate marketing dollars.

Again, if the idea of passionately following beauty pageants offends your manly sensibilities, I understand that the WWE is still broadcasting.

Frazod · 08-21-2017, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

I want Mahomes to win multiple SBs for the Chiefs.

That doesn't mean I want the Chiefs to win a ****ING THING because league and referee interests decided giving it to them would help generate marketing dollars.

Well, congratulations, you've got your wish for damn near 50 ****ing years.

BryanBusby · 08-21-2017, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Dude, again, they have Ford under control until the end of 2018. They don't have a 1st rounder in 2018 and even if Ford replicates his 2017 performance, they may wait for 2019 to take a guy.

Okay, 3rd year players aren't "tagged". There's a wage scale. For 3rd year players in 2018, it's $705k.

Absolutely false. Plus, cutting Smith only opens up $17 million in 2018 because there's a $3 million dollar Dead Cap hit.

That's just silly. Alex Smith is worth at least a 3rd round pick and if they cut him, there's no Comp Pick. The wise move is to get something in return if he's not the clear cut starter in 2018.

It's not about Veach or Dorsey, it's about the defensive scheme.

I don't see the Chiefs starting a rookie at OLB if they can help it, so I anticipate either a Dee Ford extension happening or an OLB being taken early. Good year for edge rushers.

Being ****y about terminology is stupid, but hey tendered. What the **** ever.

Either way, none of the guys they would want to keep will be ERFA's, so the hit will more than 850k and will depend what level they want to tend each player at.

Alex is a 20 million cap hit until he's released, so okay cool I guess.

And yeah you might get a 3rd for Alex eventually and you might not get shit because nobody wants him. I can tell you that the Chiefs are not going to **** Alex over to maybe get a 3rd rounder from the Jets, or muck up their plans for it.

**ptlyon** · 08-21-2017, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcellus

HOF talent is the pattern, not refs giving preference on calls.

I would love to see the yardage for Peyton Manning of PI calls just at Denver alone, and categorize them with when he threw up his hands complaining or not.

ToxSocks · 08-21-2017, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BryanBusby

And yeah you might get a 3rd for Alex eventually and you might not get shit because nobody wants him. I can tell you that the Chiefs are not going to **** Alex over to maybe get a 3rd rounder from the Jets, or muck up their plans for it.

Why do people think he's less valuable today than when the Chiefs traded for him?

**Baby Lee** · 08-21-2017, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frazod

Well, congratulations, you've got your wish for damn near 50 ****ing years.

I hope stridently for a championship due to skill.
I would revel a championship due, whether in small or large part, due to luck.
But mother**** a championship granted for a league narrative.

I like football, and I like winning. But I'm not so desperate as to play the part of the mentally challenged waterboy who the teams agree to put in at the end of a season for a fake uncontested TD.

If your opinion of Brady, Roethlisburger and Manning are accurate, there is no reason to harbor ill will to Brady, Rapes, Manning OR Alex. The only person to resent is Clark Hunt for not pushing hard enough for a feel good storyline for us with the league Gods.

**notorious** · 08-21-2017, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ptlyon

I would love to see the yardage for Peyton Manning of PI calls just at Denver alone, and categorize them with when he threw up his hands complaining or not.

That's why you need a stud QB. Ask a fan of Denver or Indy and they have no idea what you are talking about because they just assume that's how it's supposed to be. The last few years they are shocked when PI or defensive holding isn't called on every little touch.

Jordan got away with the nastiest forearm pushes to get separation, but he got that break because of who he is. I bet Bulls fans like myself hate those titles because of everything Jordan got away with.......

RippedmyFlesh · 08-21-2017, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

If your opinion of Brady, Roethlisburger and Manning are accurate, there is no reason to harbor ill will to Brady, Rapes, Manning OR Alex.

One of these does not belong with the others.

penbrook · 08-21-2017, 04:30 PM

You think Alex restructures his contract after he wins a super bowl this year

Hammock Parties · 08-21-2017, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Tyreek Hill isn't a #1 receiver?

Remains to be seen.

No. 1 WRs catch more than seven balls over 10 air yards during the course of a season. That's all he did last year.

**Baby Lee** · 08-21-2017, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RippedmyFlesh

One of these does not belong with the others.

Which is it? If a SB is won on merit, then yeah. 3 have earned it, one has not yet.

But if they're all hired actors performing NFL Kabuki, then they're all the same.

08-21-2017, 12:10 PM
DaneMcCloud Supporter Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Hollywood, CA Casino cash: $10053648	Patrick Mahomes Might Force Chiefs Hand In 2017 https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/s...-hand-in-2017/ Patrick Mahomes might force Chiefs hand in 2017 The much-lamented quarterback class of 2017 is looking pretty good all of a sudden. Mitchell Trubisky is pushing the Bears decision-making process as much as John Fox can be pushed, Deshaun Watson is going to make Bill O'Brien at least think about his Week 1 status and, most interestingly, Patrick Mahomes has found himself in a perfect situation and is turning heads early. Do you love Mahomes and consider him the most upside-riddled quarterback of this draft class? Congratulations! You are not actually a special snowflake. Everyone does. Mahomes has a cannon. It's unfair for Alex Smith, a genuinely nice human being who is an average-to-above average quarterback, that he finds himself once again squaring off against a young physical marvel on the depth chart. The good news for Smith is he looks really good this preseason. The bad news is so does Mahomes. Before we get to that, though, how much pressure can this guy actually put on Andy Reid? History tells us there is a good deal Mahomes could do to press Reid into playing him. Reid waited a while to hand the starting job to the the first quarterback he ever drafted, Donovan McNabb, after taking the Syracuse product No. 2 overall in 1999. And when he finally did, in Week 10, the Eagles were out of the playoff race, sitting at 2-7. After letting McNab take his lumps in a relief role, it was time to see what the highly-drafted rookie had to offer as a full-time starter. McNabb got a rough welcome to the NFL when he made his NFL debut against the Bucs in Week 2, getting sacked six times by the eventual NFC Central champions (remember that this Bucs team was the basis for the eventual Super Bowl championship defense). In a fun twist of fate, the guy McNabb replaced as the starter was Doug Pederson, who is the current Eagles coach and former offensive coordinator for Alex Smith. Andy Reid waited until Week 10 of Donovan McNabb's rookie season before naming him the starter. Two years later, Reid selected A.J. Feeley in the fifth round of the 2001 NFL Draft. That's not notable for Feeley being a guy who might have taken playing time, but he is another quarterback in a long list of Reid protégés who ended up being traded for a high draft pick. The point being, when Andy Reid latches onto a quarterback in the draft, people take notice. Reid went a long time between taking McNabb early and grabbing another quarterback. Again, notable. If Reid is spending high draft capital on a quarterback, there should be a belief he can win with said quarterback for a long time. He also probably thinks that quarterback is capable of winning and/or playing early. Patrick Mahomes was the 12th player drafted. Kevin Kolb was the second quarterback taken by Reid with a high pick in his Eagles tenure. Kolb was taken out of Houston with a second-round pick in 2007 (the Eagles actually traded down out of the first round with the Cowboys who took Anthony Spencer). He didn't replace McNabb immediately, but Kolb is also a clear-cut historical marker in terms of Reid making sure he has quarterback insurance. McNabb was battling injuries during that stretch, coming off the Super Bowl loss to the Patriots, and would be gone after 2009. That year featured a storm of controversy, too, with Michael Vick and Kolb nipping on McNabb's heels for playing time. Ultimately it was McNabb's team, but with Vick and Kolb on the roster, there were plenty of people chirping to see the other options. The backup quarterback is always the most popular guy in town, and that's been the case for Andy Reid's teams in the past. Vick and Kolb ran the team in 2010 after McNabb left and then Kolb was traded. The "Dream Team" of 2011 followed, but it wouldn't be long before a draft pick caused trouble on the roster again. Nick Foles, taken in the third round of the 2012 NFL Draft, was firmly entrenched in Reid-style controversy within his first year. Foles started six games for Reid in 2012 and that led to serious concern about who should start in 2013, when Foles went 8-2 as a starter under Chip Kelly. Ultimately what you see from Reid is a history of high draft picks playing early. McNabb was under center three quarters of the way through the season in his rookie year. Kolb was held at bay, but McNabb aged better than Reid expected and it still ended in McNabb being dealt to the Redskins. The Michael Vick thing was a different animal. Er, situation. Foles played quickly, starting multiple games his first year. Which brings us back to Mahomes, who has looked just absolutely tools-y this preseason. Mahomes, who played in Kliff Kingsbury's system at Texas Tech, is going to require some refinement. But he has everything you would want to see in a quarterback from a physical perspective. If you buy into Reid developing quarterbacks -- and why wouldn't you? -- Mahomes is a fascinating prospect. He has underrated speed and is strong enough too take hits and still make throws. Mahomes is faster and stronger than just about everyone on the field. As a quarterback that is an undeniable advantage. He can shrug off blitzers but he can also deftly evade people coming at him on the rush. And if he needs to, Mahomes can whip a quick throw on short notice. All that is well and good, but the downside of Mahomes is he's not harnessed right now either. He can be, and it's easy to see Reid figuring out how. Mahomes might be a stronger, slightly slower, more twitchy version of McNabb with a better arm. Alex Smith is on notice, although he knew that coming into the preseason. The guess here, two weeks into the season, is that Smith won't lose his job as long as the Chiefs are winning. If Kansas City falters or the offense looks flat, don't be surprised to see Mahomes. Reid's history makes it clear he is willing to run with a young talent he trusted in the draft. He believes in his quarterback development almost as much as he believes in his talent evaluation. Maybe more.
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08-21-2017, 03:13 PM	#77
L.A. Chieffan PLAY GOOD FOOTBALL Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: American Gardens Building Casino cash: $2688654	Not a good writer.
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08-21-2017, 04:30 PM	#88
penbrook LEGEND! Join Date: Feb 2013 Casino cash: $10033840	You think Alex restructures his contract after he wins a super bowl this year
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