Mahomes Grade Game 2

[TLO]

Poll to come

[jjchieffan]

Originally Posted by BigChiefTablet

Who pissed in your breakfast? Look man, if we can't be optimistic in the pre-season, what the hell do we have as Chiefs fans?

He's a Faider fan hoping that Mahomes fails to live up to our expectations. They already can't beat us with Smith. They fear the domination that will come with Mahomes.

[Best22]

Originally Posted by cmdrzman

I know enough to know that both Mahomes and CJ Beathard from SF both 2nd string QBs that both had 23 attempts in the last 2 games and that Beathard had almost 100 more yards in the same attempts as Mahomes, same 3 TD's thrown and a higher QB rating than Mahomes...

So whattya say we kinda pump the breaks a little on this Mahomes for MVP drooling here... if that's the case... than it looks like CJ frekin Beathard is the next Tom Brady-

Whattya say we wait and see what he can do vs #1 defenses, and I'm not talking about dinking and dunking all day long on frekin bubble screens- lets see this dude take the Chiefs down the field and score in crunch time and win a game before we start getting his yellow jacket fitted mkay?

You better hope Mahomes bust...you guys can't even handle Alex Smith and a gimpy Justin Houston. If Mahomes is just a little better than Alex, bye bye Raiders

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Originally Posted by jjchieffan

It's so funny seeing a Faiders fan come in here and try to tell us not to be so excited about our rookie QB. I sense fear.

GREAT fear. I'm going to laugh my ass off when pisshouse Dungver beats their ass at least once while the Chiefs pull out the broom yet again and go for a nice waltz through the division without breaking a sweat.

[RealSNR]

cumdumpsterman is pinning his hopes on Mahomes not working out because right now every game on the Raiders' schedule against the Chiefs with Alex Smith is an automatic L.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Originally Posted by RealSNR

cumdumpsterman is pinning his hopes on Mahomes not working out because right now every game on the Raiders' schedule against the Chiefs with Alex Smith is an automatic L.

Yes, very automatic. How sad it must be to feel the sting of being swept by such an unremarkable specimen as Smith.

[go bo]

Originally Posted by RealSNR

Not to nitpick, but I think you're grading him on an aptitude scale, while everybody else is grading him on an achievement scale. You're giving him an aptitude rating... how well does he play the QB position compared to the entire body of NFL QBs, where those with the best QB aptitude receive A's and those who come up short receive grades less than that. Madden ratings, basically.

I think most of us are thinking of this grade as achievement rating-- what did he accomplish according to what the expectations are? Given Mahomes' college background, his age, his experience, and his familiarity with the playbook, his list of expectations he needs to achieve in a preseason game looks different than what Alex Smith needs to achieve.

No, I'm not saying he plays by special rules. I'm saying that his expectations are different. A 5th grader who aces all of his math tests is probably good at math, and as you keep teaching him, he's probably going to continue to achieve high grades for what's expected of him. You wouldn't compare what he knows in math with the entire school system's math curriculum and say, "He knows no algebra, trig, or calculus yet. He's a "D" grade math student."

That situation is just like Mahomes and our subjective grades for this game. We're grading him based on what was expected of him compared to a typical rookie QB.

I agree. He's not REALLY running the offense, and his knowledge of the routes, schemes, and timing obviously needs like... you know... a year. Two years. More. It takes a long time to get that shit down for ANY QB. But this is live football. He has to play with what he's given in the time he's been given it, and it's his job score points, even if they're meaningless preseason points. Docking him because he's doing what works for him in a test where NOTHING slows down so you can learn and develop at your own pace isn't the appropriate way to assess him at this stage.

He's still learning algebra, and he's kicking ass at it. He'll eventually learn calculus. Just because he fails calculus now, however, doesn't mean he didn't ace tonight's algebra test.

damn fine exposition...

it's why i'm excited about our offense for the 1st time since vermeil...

[UK_Chief]

Mahomes is making me Beat Hard...

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by RealSNR

He's still learning algebra, and he's kicking ass at it. He'll eventually learn calculus. Just because he fails calculus now, however, doesn't mean he didn't ace tonight's algebra test.

But in the end he's an NFL quarterback now. It's time for him to be taking the SATs and when the calculus question shows up, nobody's gonna give a shit if he's a 7th grader taking it early - he's still expected to answer correctly or he'll lose the same number of points as any old high school senior. The grade is the grade and there's no points for being young.

The only fair way to grade him is on an NFL curve - not a rookie scale. One of the best answers I ever heard from a player was when he was asked how things changed at the pro level. His answer was perfect "The day I stepped on an NFL field, every single player was immediately better but me".

And that's exactly right. He's now facing the best of the best of the best. He doesn't get a rookie scale when you're grading him (that's what scouting reports are for; not post-game debriefing/grading).

He missed some open guys on iffy reads. At least once he felt pressure that wasn't there. He wasn't confident inside the pocket and he threw a ball that very easily could've gone the other way for 6. By any objective measure, it was not an A performance. It was a good performance for a green rookie with an obscene set of physical tools.

The tools and improvisational ability got him a B on a day where Smith provided the blueprint for how to run that offense (dude absolutely coasted; looked completely in command). If you award Mahomes an A on a day where we saw glimpses of what an A for him truly should be (the physical and improvisational tools he demonstrated combined with the grasp Smith showed), you're grading him too easily. If a coach gave him an A for that, he'd be allowing him to float on talent rather than pointing out where he needs improvement.

[O.city]

He didn't really execute from the pocket like you'd want him to.

But he also doesn't look overwhelmed by it all. Which imo, considering where and what he's coming from, is a great sign.

[rico]

Originally Posted by UK_Chief

Mahomes is making me Beat Hard...

Is that a CJ Beathard reference?

[JakeF]

Originally Posted by O.city

He didn't really execute from the pocket like you'd want him to.

But he also doesn't look overwhelmed by it all. Which imo, considering where and what he's coming from, is a great sign.

Has a lot to learn but even taking that into consideration you can still see his natural ability and instincts.

Even totally raw and undeveloped he looks like a total stud.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by O.city

He didn't really execute from the pocket like you'd want him to.

But he also doesn't look overwhelmed by it all. Which imo, considering where and what he's coming from, is a great sign.

Of course it is. It's a fantastic sign.

He doesn't looked overwhelmed and that means he can eventually get a handle on it. But he doesn't look comfortable either.

We're talking about an NFL quarterback here, fellas - a B grade is above average. He plays a whole season at a B level and you'll have a nice season on your hands. Hell, if he plays 4+ seasons at a B level, your pick is worthwhile.

But that's what we saw in that game - a young kid who's still kinda making shit up as he goes and who's going to guess wrong at an inopportune time. That's not an A level player.

I'm elated we have him. I think he'll be a star. I've never been happier with a pick and Mahomes was my preferred target from the jump. I'm extremely happy with how he's played to this point.

But c'mon - that wasn't an A performance for an NFL quarterback. That was a good day and a great start but there were still places that need ironing out.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Of course it is. It's a fantastic sign.

He doesn't looked overwhelmed and that means he can eventually get a handle on it. But he doesn't look comfortable either.

We're talking about an NFL quarterback here, fellas - a B grade is above average. He plays a whole season at a B level and you'll have a nice season on your hands. Hell, if he plays 4+ seasons at a B level, your pick is worthwhile.

But that's what we saw in that game - a young kid who's still kinda making shit up as he goes and who's going to guess wrong at an inopportune time. That's not an A level player.

I'm elated we have him. I think he'll be a star. I've never been happier with a pick and Mahomes was my preferred target from the jump. I'm extremely happy with how he's played to this point.

But c'mon - that wasn't an A performance for an NFL quarterback. That was a good day and a great start but there were still places that need ironing out.

It looked like a suped up johnny football performance, which isn't bad, but he needs to win from the pocket and use the other skills when he needs them. Basically, like ARog.

Also, fwiw, Alex smith has looked fantastic. I know it's the preseason and we shall see if it lasts (lol) but he's looked as good as I've seen him.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by O.city

It looked like a suped up johnny football performance, which isn't bad, but he needs to win from the pocket and use the other skills when he needs them. Basically, like ARog.

Also, fwiw, Alex smith has looked fantastic. I know it's the preseason and we shall see if it lasts (lol) but he's looked as good as I've seen him.

I had the "Manziel on Steroids" comparison already typed and figured it would just derail the damn thread but yes, that's how he's playing right now. Take Manziel's style of play, soup the arm up and make him bigger/stronger and you get what Mahomes has done.

The thing that is so underrated about Mahomes arm-strength is how it impacts his accuracy. Take 10 swings at 100% with a golf club and tell me how many of them go where you want them to. Then take 10 swings at 75% and lemme know. Now for me the answer is going to be somewhere between 1 and 3 either way, but for a good golfer, the dialed down swings will be virtually automatic and the 100% version will be erratic.

You can see that in Mahomes. That throw he made to Escobar wasn't a balls out throw because it didn't need to be. And because of that, he put it right on the mark. Manziel would've tried to make that throw and he'd have had to put his entire ass into it - at that point the ball would've probably been released late and spiked into the turf or thrown right to the zone defender playing in front of Escobar.

That arm strength makes him more accurate because he's not having to try as hard and from the funky throwing platforms he can operate from, he can still make them work.

But again - that's not the ideal way to play the position. You've ****ed up the flow of the offense, usually wiped out half the field (trouble in the WCO) and have impacted an OC's ability to 'set up' a defense to beat them up later. So much of football is a chess match and if a QB isn't playing within the offense frequently, that chess match falls apart.

That's the step Mahomes needs to take. He needs to play in a manner that allows his OC and coaching staff to stay ahead in the chess match. And then if shit hits the fan, bail some guys out.

[RunKC]

I think the most impressive thing about Pat is his mental capability. He's making 2-3 reads consistently and it shows. You see his head moving during the progression of the play and finding guys. He's seeing blitzes, he's going through progressions, he's looking downfield at all times and it's been a huge part of his success so far.

I watched Watson play and it's the complete opposite. He's staring down his first read every play, he's not looking through progressions and when he's under pressure his first reaction is tuck and run.