2018 STL Cardinals Thread

[BigRedChief]

Opening day lineup

Fowler RF
Pham CF
Carpenter 3B
Ozuna LF
Martinez 1B
Molina C
Dejong SS
Wong 2B
Pitcher

Edit:
Matheny fired 07/14/2018




Opening Day Roster

Spoiler!

St. Louis has opted to carry 12 position players and 13 pitchers to begin the new season, with a four-man bench and eight-man bullpen.

Outfielders:
Dexter Fowler
Tommy Pham
Marcell Ozuna

Infielders:
Matt Carpenter
Paul DeJong
Kolten Wong

Catchers:
Yadier Molina
Francisco Pena

Utility:
Jose Martinez
Greg Garcia
Yairo Munoz
Jedd Gyrko

Starters:
Carlos Martinez
Michael Wacha
Luke Weaver
Miles Mikolas
Jack Flaherty

Relievers:
Dominic Leone
Tyler Lyons
Bud Norris
Brett Cecil
Sam Tuivailala
Matt Bowman
Jordan Hicks
Mike Mayers

On the DL:
Adam Wainwright
Luke Gregerson

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

The plaque for the alternates is in the lady's room.

The Cardinals have 'competed' for several FAs over the last 10 years and it's gotten them nowhere because their options are to either overpay as the high bidder or lose. They simply don't have the cache they once had that can put them over the top in these FA pursuits.

They need to focus on getting that back as well as the 'trade/sign' sort of longer term plays. I'm sure they'll make 'competitive' offers for Machado and maybe even Harper, but they won't get either guy because they don't have the kicker to put it over the top.

They just aren't a destination franchise right now. It's a damn shame because there really isn't anything that makes the Phillies more desireable than STL apart from perception. They don't have a slew of young hitters banging the door down. We have young pitching talent that compares favorably to theirs as well. We should be neck and neck with them in terms of desirability but I just don't think we are.

And when they can also outspend us, I don't see how we win a showdown with them.

I think a lot of our issues with attracting talent was Matheny. His stubborn non-fun approach to the game. If you have a choice, would you want to play for him?

Larussa and Belechick attracted players willing to put up with their “hard ass” approach because they want to win a championship. No one thought Matheny was so smart or capable of willing a team to a championship.

Also you have to wonder if the whole Ferguson issue is a lingering thing. The image of a community of rednecks, deserved or not, takes forever to get out of the public’s mind.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

I think a lot of our issues with attracting talent was Matheny. His stubborn non-fun approach to the game. If you have a choice, would you want to play for him?

Larussa and Belechick attracted players willing to put up with their “hard ass” approach because they want to win a championship. No one thought Matheny was so smart or capable of willing a team to a championship.

Also you have to wonder if the whole Ferguson issue is a lingering thing. The image of a community of rednecks, deserved or not, takes forever to get out of the public’s mind.

Stl just won another player poll of most impressive fanbase.

Players still understand that playing in front of the fans in STL is a pretty sweet gig. But they dont trust the organizations leadership. Matheny is gone, sure, but Shildt will have to prove himself and frankly so will Mozeliak.

The problem isnt the town and it isnt the jersey. It's the management.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Stl just won another player poll of most impressive fanbase.

Players still understand that playing in front of the fans in STL is a pretty sweet gig. But they dont trust the organizations leadership. Matheny is gone, sure, but Shildt will have to prove himself and frankly so will Mozeliak.

The problem isnt the town and it isnt the jersey. It's the management.

3rd highest attendance in baseball. After LA&NY. And those 40K+ per game are paying attention to the game. Appreciate even the so-so players, some treated like Rock stars. If I’m a player it would seem you’d enjoy playing here. But, those other two offer more commercial success and money.

Depends on what the player really wants out of their career. One of these top players we were discussing today can get that experience above and their $300 million. But, Beyoncé or DiCaprio ain’t stopping by the locker room or inviting the player to the after game party.

[jd1020]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Cubs fans, deep in the darkest recesses of their souls where they never let Cardinals fans, will acknowledge that the present incarnation of that squad starting in/around the 2014 season and probably running through 2021 or so really should win more than a single championship. Now there's still a pretty decent chance that they do - but if they don't their pitching will be the culprit.

Well......

That and Theo's stupid ****ing trades.

He made a bunch of quality ones for guys like Arrieta, Hendricks, Russell, etc... But then he went and ****ed it all up by trading a top 5 prospects in MiLB for a rental closer. I can forgive him for that because it broke the WS drought, but just compare what the Indians gave up for a guy with control and equally as elite to the same team.

Fine, whatever, I'll make that trade again given the outcome.

But then he went and did the same god damn shit for a guy that is a #3 pitcher at best in Quintana.

The Astros did it way better than Theo. They went out and got guys that at their peak are legitimate aces. For christ sakes their #5 pitcher to start the season was ****ing Gerrit Cole.

[BigRedChief]

Something going on with this team since Meathead was fired?

2/3 from the Cubs
3/4 from the Rockies
2/3 from the Pirates
2/3 from the Marlins

[Jewish Rabbi]

Originally Posted by jd1020

Well......

That and Theo's stupid ****ing trades.

He made a bunch of quality ones for guys like Arrieta, Hendricks, Russell, etc... But then he went and ****ed it all up by trading a top 5 prospects in MiLB for a rental closer. I can forgive him for that because it broke the WS drought, but just compare what the Indians gave up for a guy with control and equally as elite to the same team.

Fine, whatever, I'll make that trade again given the outcome.

But then he went and did the same god damn shit for a guy that is a #3 pitcher at best in Quintana.

The Astros did it way better than Theo. They went out and got guys that at their peak are legitimate aces. For christ sakes their #5 pitcher to start the season was ****ing Gerrit Cole.

If only we kept Luhnow instead of Mo...

[duncan_idaho]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Just don't see it - not with the Astros. That's not a team that NEEDS to bend to the whims of a FA. And the Astros have openly acknowledged that they do have a budget and it's going to be tough to keep their young core together. I expect they let Springer walk and replace him with Tucker, but where they're really going to struggle is likely starting pitching.

Morton and Keuchel are both FAs this offseason, Verlander and Cole next. Sure, a lot of money comes off the books but in Verlander and Cole, so will the heart of their pitching staff. Moreover, their depth in will be sorely taxed if/when Morton and Keuchel walk, especially since McCullers just cannot stay healthy.

They have a high-end hitting prospect at 1b and a lot of money they need to allocate to keeping their pitching staff intact. I just cannot see them spending a premium on Machado just to take a guy like Correa and stick him at 3b while putting Bregman in the OF. That move does a ton to undercut both guys overall value to the squad.

The marginal benefit of that kind of financial outlay won't match spending that same money on keeping their starting staff together or finding their eventual replacements. Forrest Whitley can only do so much...

Regarding Phillies vs. Cardinals - hey, I'm inclined to agree but that sure isn't the narrative you're seeing in baseball right now. To hear it told, the Cardinals are lower than the Rays at the moment. I remain hopeful that a strong second half under Shildt and some happier players going into the offseason polishes the apple a bit but it's going to take time to become someplace players want to go again. I just think its impossible to overstate the damage Matheny has done to this teams standing.

The Astros have the surest thing to a sure thing top of rotation SP that I think we’ve seen for a while in Whitley, so that helps.

They also have done such a good job of acquiring guys they have scouted up, that probably is still a viable vehicle, too.

They’ve done a good enough job that they’re the only org I could see making Archer as good as people think he should be.

[Prison Bitch]

I agree with DJ they may shell out for Cole. That makes perfect sense.


I disagree that teams nec fill in holes anymore, instead of making a strength a dominance. Take the Cubs: built entirely from less-risk high profile hitters, opting to build pitching with cast offs that were undervalued. Theo lost his way, panicked to get Quintana (understandable), and got totally destroyed by Darvish.

Imagine if he spent the Darvish $$$ on JD Martinez.

HOU has had success with cast offs like Morton. They will look at Theo as a warning against entereing FA market for the top arm.

[jd1020]

Originally Posted by Prison Bitch

Take the Cubs: built entirely from less-risk high profile hitters, opting to build pitching with cast offs that were undervalued. Theo lost his way, panicked to get Quintana (understandable), and got totally destroyed by Darvish.

Imagine if he spent the Darvish $$$ on JD Martinez.

How did Theo get totally destroyed by Darvish? He got a guy with ace material for below market value because of his injuries. He hasn't pitched well, yet, for the Cubs and he's been on the DL for awhile but year 1 isnt even complete yet and the Cubs are still in first place sitting pretty.

What is he going to do with JD Martinez? There's no room for him on this team.

[Prison Bitch]

Hey bro, if you're happy with the Darvish deal, I won't piss in your cheerios.

[jd1020]

I'm not going to fault a guy for getting a guy like Darvish under market value, that's ****ing stupid.

Your idea of using the money on JD Martinez is even worse. Sure hes having a really good year... as a DH. Do tell where he would play on the Cubs. You benching Rizzo for him? Schwarber? Moving Heyward to CF and putting him in RF? I mean... think before you speak.

[Jewish Rabbi]

Originally Posted by jd1020

I mean... think before you speak.

This is Prison Bitch you’re talking to...

[Pasta Little Brioni]

He's too busy jerkin out to Al-ci-des "highlight" videos lulz

[Chiefspants]

I never thought winning a title and breaking a 108 YEAR DROUGHT could cause the luster to fade from anyone, but boy if I haven't seen that exact thing happen with Maddon and Theo since 2016.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by jd1020

How did Theo get totally destroyed by Darvish? He got a guy with ace material for below market value because of his injuries. He hasn't pitched well, yet, for the Cubs and he's been on the DL for awhile but year 1 isnt even complete yet and the Cubs are still in first place sitting pretty.

What is he going to do with JD Martinez? There's no room for him on this team.

If you watch Darvish or Archer pitch, or even have them on a fantasy team, you quickly learn that the whole is far, far less than the sum of the parts. They try too hard for strikeouts and give up too many homers. This falsely deflates their peripherals, making them appear better than what they really are.

#fakeaces