2018 STL Cardinals Thread

[BigRedChief]

Opening day lineup

Fowler RF
Pham CF
Carpenter 3B
Ozuna LF
Martinez 1B
Molina C
Dejong SS
Wong 2B
Pitcher

Edit:
Matheny fired 07/14/2018




Opening Day Roster

Spoiler!

St. Louis has opted to carry 12 position players and 13 pitchers to begin the new season, with a four-man bench and eight-man bullpen.

Outfielders:
Dexter Fowler
Tommy Pham
Marcell Ozuna

Infielders:
Matt Carpenter
Paul DeJong
Kolten Wong

Catchers:
Yadier Molina
Francisco Pena

Utility:
Jose Martinez
Greg Garcia
Yairo Munoz
Jedd Gyrko

Starters:
Carlos Martinez
Michael Wacha
Luke Weaver
Miles Mikolas
Jack Flaherty

Relievers:
Dominic Leone
Tyler Lyons
Bud Norris
Brett Cecil
Sam Tuivailala
Matt Bowman
Jordan Hicks
Mike Mayers

On the DL:
Adam Wainwright
Luke Gregerson

[O.city]

Originally Posted by Frazod

Of the super expensive steak places here, my favorite is probably Ruth's Chris. But frankly if I'm spending that kind of money I'd rather go to a Hibachi place and get lobster and filet.

I can get Ruth's Chris anywhere though.

I can only get Gibsons in Chicago.

Smith and Wollensky is good too, but it's a pain in the ass being downtown.

[George Liquor]

Originally Posted by O.city

Joe's crab in Vegas was awesome. Never been to the one in Chicago, but the steak and stone crab are......they're good.

Frazod, I'm a big Gibsons guy when I'm in Chicago. It's pricey but damn it, I want a good steak and they've got it.

They have a Giordanos in Vegas now

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Originally Posted by O.city

#STLCards and #DBacks have discussed a trade that would send Paul Goldschmidt to St. Louis, source confirms @dgoold report. @MLB @MLBNetwork

— Jon Morosi (,@jonmorosi) December 4, 2018

Cool, an aging dude that did nothing his last 15 games

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Frazod

You crack me up.

Never been to Joe's Seafood and Prime, although I concur that many, if not most, of the big dollar steak places aren't worth the ridiculous prices they charge. My favorite restaurant in the city is an Italian steak house way outside the Loop on the Northwest Side called Sabatino's, which is unfortunately closing at the end of the year. Great food, wonderful old time feel, and the only thing that's changed since I first set foot in the place 25 years ago is that there aren't ashtrays on the tables now. That's the kind of place I'm thinking about when I talk about great food up here - not the overhyped expensive shit downtown.

And you are just flat out wrong about the pizza. It's wonderful.

As for the bums, that's pretty unusual. This isn't Seattle or San Francisco. For the most part the street zombies are well behaved up here.

Regarding the pizza...I'm perhaps allowing my hatred of the city to color an otherwise occasionally good change of pace. I was always vociferously in favor of Chicago style over NY Style until I went to NY and had the real stuff; holy shit it's amazing.

We go to Harry Carey's Italian Steakhouse and it's an enjoyable experience but again - nothing I can't find in KC or STL if I'm willing to drop $150/head. As for the non-overhyped joints, same story - every major city has those.

NY has the best food experience I've had followed by Philly and Boston. Maine was incredible b/c of the sea food (sorry, Rainman) and San Diego had shockingly good italian food to go with all the pacific coast stuff. I just don't see what Chicago has going for it that anyplace else with a lot of people and a fair amount of money doesn't already have. The Jazz joint was cool until the industrious bum came along and I got to see Josh Duhamel monopolize a strip club once; that was interesting. **** all of them for wearing pasties anyway.

[jd1020]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

Almost every rumor has him in Philly. It other teams are mentioned they usually include the Cardinals. I don't think I've read very many that have him landing with the Cubs.

I dont expect him to sign with the Cubs. They would have to be willing to nearly go over the tax penalty that would hurt draft position and I'm not sure they want to do that. They can certainly afford to do it but I would say theres probably a 5% chance hes on the Cubs next year.

I'm just having fun with you. Pretty much every nugget he and his wife have dropped on social media is related to Chicago and it's likely nothing more than driving his price up. However, I do believe if the Cubs were even competitive in AAV up to the opt out year he would probably sign with them.

[Marco Polo]

Per Rosenthal:

*The Cardinals, deep in starting pitching, are nonetheless open to a reunion with right-hander Shelby Miller, who was non-tendered by the Diamondbacks on Friday.
Miller, 28, is a classic buy-low candidate – he missed most of 2017 and ‘18 while recovering from Tommy John surgery.

The Cardinals made Miller the 19th overall pick of the 2009 draft, then traded him to the Braves in a deal for outfielder Jason Heyward in November 2014. The following year, Miller went to the D-Backs for outfielder Ender Inciarte, shortstop Dansby Swanson and right-hander Aaron Blair.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Marco Polo

Per Rosenthal:

*The Cardinals, deep in starting pitching, are nonetheless open to a reunion with right-hander Shelby Miller, who was non-tendered by the Diamondbacks on Friday.
Miller, 28, is a classic buy-low candidate – he missed most of 2017 and ‘18 while recovering from Tommy John surgery.

The Cardinals made Miller the 19th overall pick of the 2009 draft, then traded him to the Braves in a deal for outfielder Jason Heyward in November 2014. The following year, Miller went to the D-Backs for outfielder Ender Inciarte, shortstop Dansby Swanson and right-hander Aaron Blair.

Of course.

Thriving FA market - so the Cardinals are looking for an older, more washed up version of guys they have a dozen of already. Sounds like a good use of our time.

Eh...probably still more productive than trading for Paul Goldschmidt so we can move Matt Carpenter and his bum wing to 3b.

The unbridled stupidity of this organization never ceases to amaze me.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by Marco Polo

Per Rosenthal:

*The Cardinals, deep in starting pitching, are nonetheless open to a reunion with right-hander Shelby Miller, who was non-tendered by the Diamondbacks on Friday.
Miller, 28, is a classic buy-low candidate – he missed most of 2017 and ‘18 while recovering from Tommy John surgery.

The Cardinals made Miller the 19th overall pick of the 2009 draft, then traded him to the Braves in a deal for outfielder Jason Heyward in November 2014. The following year, Miller went to the D-Backs for outfielder Ender Inciarte, shortstop Dansby Swanson and right-hander Aaron Blair.

What are we talking about here? Hudson/Kelly for a year of Goldy and maybe Miller as a throw in?

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

What are we talking about here? Hudson/Kelly for a year of Goldy and maybe Miller as a throw in?

Miller has been DFA'd.

Hudson/Kelly for Goldy is a monumental rape job. I have no particular use for either player but you're trading 2 guys with about $40 million in surplus value between them given the amount of control they have for 1 season of Goldschmidt and maybe $15 million in surplus value.

That would be an AWFUL trade and yet the media in St. Louis would lap it up and sell it to the 'casual fans'.

So, y'know, about 80% likely to happen.

[jd1020]

The rumors are that the Cardinals would trade for Goldschmidt with an extension in place.

Goold puts the deal in the range of a MLB ready pitcher with/without MLB experience but with several years on control + upside prospect + contributing position player with a standout tool. He thinks Hudson, Kelly, and O'Neill would all be discussed.

But then he also says he would flame the Cardinals for making that trade because of the teams belief that signing someone like Harper wouldn't be as scary because of the out years when he got to Goldschmidt's current age and then go ahead and extend a guy to play through those "out years."

Sounds like the Cardinals are skipping Plan A, Plan B already signed in Atlanta, and are going straight to C.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by jd1020

The rumors are that the Cardinals would trade for Goldschmidt with an extension in place.

Goold puts the deal in the range of a MLB ready pitcher with/without MLB experience but with several years on control + upside prospect + contributing position player with a standout tool. He thinks Hudson, Kelly, and O'Neill would all be discussed.

But then he also says he would flame the Cardinals for making that trade because of the teams belief that signing someone like Harper wouldn't be as scary because of the out years when he got to Goldschmidt's current age and then go ahead and extend a guy to play through those "out years."

Sounds like the Cardinals are skipping Plan A, Plan B already signed in Atlanta, and are going straight to C.

"The rumors" are all reposting that ****wad Incarcerated Bob and to this point have no discernible merit at all.

[DJ's left nut]

Corbin to the Gnats at 6/$140.

Wanna know why I'd pay $35 million for Harper without batting an eye? Because we live in a world where Patrick Corbin, 1 season removed from being a 4th starter, is earning $23 million/season through his age 34 season.

Patrick Corbin and a couple of 'established' middle relievers will cost roughly what Harper costs. Screw that; sign Harper, develop your relievers and get the superstar instead of a guy you wouldn't be comfortable handing the ball in game 1 or 2 of a playoff series.

[Marco Polo]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Corbin to the Gnats at 6/$140.

Wanna know why I'd pay $35 million for Harper without batting an eye? Because we live in a world where Patrick Corbin, 1 season removed from being a 4th starter, is earning $23 million/season through his age 34 season.

Patrick Corbin and a couple of 'established' middle relievers will cost roughly what Harper costs. Screw that; sign Harper, develop your relievers and get the superstar instead of a guy you wouldn't be comfortable handing the ball in game 1 or 2 of a playoff series.

Amen

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Corbin to the Gnats at 6/$140.

Wanna know why I'd pay $35 million for Harper without batting an eye? Because we live in a world where Patrick Corbin, 1 season removed from being a 4th starter, is earning $23 million/season through his age 34 season.

Patrick Corbin and a couple of 'established' middle relievers will cost roughly what Harper costs. Screw that; sign Harper, develop your relievers and get the superstar instead of a guy you wouldn't be comfortable handing the ball in game 1 or 2 of a playoff series.

I said we should offer $50 million more total than anyone else for Harper. Up to $40 million a year. Waino’s $20 million off the books this year. Molina’s $20 million in 2 years. We can afford it. We are desperate. 3 years without playoffs. Lagging farther and farther behind the Bucs and Cubs. But, the Cardinals are making buckets of money. Rolling in cash.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

I said we should offer $50 million more total than anyone else for Harper. Up to $40 million a year. Waino’s $20 million off the books this year. Molina’s $20 million in 2 years. We can afford it. We are desperate. 3 years without playoffs. Lagging farther and farther behind the Bucs and Cubs. But, the Cardinals are making buckets of money. Rolling in cash.

I think the last conversation I had with someone was "well would you do $42 million?" and my answer was "If I'll do $35, I'll do $42. An extra $7 million gets you Luke !@#$ing Gregerson these days..."

The high cost of mediocrity has made it smarter than it has ever been to overspend on superstars, especially when the modern baseball growth curve says that many players will be at/near their prime productivity earlier and earlier. When you can go to the farm and pull up some 23 yr old kid that can give you 2-3 wins over a commensurate number of ABs, why the hell pay $15 million for the privilege of a 30 yr old guy that does the same thing?

Save that money and go with a combination of stars and cost-controlled young talent. There's just no upshot to paying retail on mid-tier FAs. That's how Mike Leake's happen.