Cardinals ****The Official 2019 STL Cardinals Thread**** - Page 12

**BigRedChief** · 12:57 PM

Cardinals announce 25-man Opening Day roster for the 2019 season.

Spoiler!

2019 Opening Day Line up

Spoiler!

Won the Central Division. Won the NLDS.

NLDS Playoff roster

Spoiler!

NLDS Playoff Game 1 starting lineup

Spoiler!

NLCS Game One Starting lineup

Spoiler!

Megatron96 · 03-21-2019, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

The worry is that you're paying for his decline years, while Arizona got the best of him.

I don't know if that's the case here. A big reason (according to the analysts here) that Goldy didn't have the production of the previous year was that he didn't have anyone that could reliably get on base in front of him. If he gets some protection in the line-up I think he'll be pretty good. It's not like he's old, and he's never had a serious injury, just some inflammation in his elbow that one time.

And even with the lack of help last year I think he hit close to .300 (I believe it was .290 or .295 or something). Plus he knows how to get a hit in big games, which might be helpful in the playoffs if we make it that far.

He's never been a big team leader guy, but I don't think the Cards are asking that of him either. So if all he has to do is play his game, and he gets some consistency in front of him I really believe he'll get back to his previous form.

**BigRedChief** · 03-21-2019, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcellus

Cards are close to an extension with Goldschmidt on an extension for around 5 yrs $110MM.

Doesn't sound too bad really.

On a bizarre note, Fowler homered 2 times today and Ozuna had a HR.

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

Paul Goldschmidt and #cardinals closing in on five-year extension worth around $130 million, according to source. @Ken_Rosenthal had sides were close.
— Derrick Goold (@dgoold) March 21, 2019

like DJ has said, in today’s FA market, the best you can hope for is a fair deal for both sides. Looks to be at market value.

We don’t have any 1B minor leaguers he’d block so, why not?

'Hamas' Jenkins · 03-21-2019, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

So I was kinda thinking out loud a bit this morning and was directed to Ozzie Smith as an obvious HoF 'peak defense, tolerable offense' HoF player. And my immediate reaction was to say "yeah, that seems about right"

But then I thought on it a little more and frankly, Ozzie's offense, though paltry and ineffective by today's standards, was actually pretty decent for the bulk of his career given his era. He made a ton of contact, stole bases and scored runs. He was an above average offensive player who was good at a style of game unique to the era. Moreover, Ozzie set the standard for defense at ANY position and I don't think he's been met since. I believe Ozzie Smith was the single greatest defensive player in baseball history.

Molina's offense for the majority of his career has been somewhat in line with the style at the time but I don't believe it's been as valuable to this era as Ozzies was to his era. Moreover, while Yadi may be among the best defensive catchers ever, I don't believe he is head and shoulders above a handful of contenders (as Ozzie is) nor do I believe he ranks with Ozzie as a purely transformational defensive player.

So by that review, I'd say he's the same kind of player and a similar analysis as Ozzie Smith...but not quite as good. Okay, so lets use the transitive property here. If 80% of Ozzie Smith = Yadier Molina, what's 80% of Ozzie Smith in a historic context?

Well damn...that's really really easy. That's Omar Vizquel.

Omar has 11 gold gloves, was the peak defender of his era, could be a complementary offensive player on a championship caliber ballclub, was a great leader and consummate professional. He's remarkably comparable to Molina if you're willing to consider across positions. And Omar is PROBABLY gonna make the Hall. It's gonna take some time, but he'll probably get there.

But it's not exactly a cinch. Even after this adjustment, Yadi remains firmly in the 'will probably get there after some effort' camp, IMO. And I'm not sure I agree with that conclusion (I think he should go in after maybe 2-3 years; not the 6-8 it could well take), but when you see what the voters are doing, I think that's probably what will happen.

Yadi has a career wRC+ of 100, Vizquel is 83. Over the last 19 years, MLB average for catchers is 84 and 95 for SS. So, while Molina is 19 percent more productive than positional average, Vizquel is 12.6 percent worse. There is a large offensive gap between the two.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 03-21-2019, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

like DJ has said, in today’s FA market, the best you can hope for is a fair deal for both sides. Looks to be at market value.

We don’t have any 1B minor leaguers he’d block so, why not?

We do, they are just playing third right now.

**BigRedChief** · 03-21-2019, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

We do, they are just playing third right now.

im not going to get worked up about this signing as long as they don’t act like this was the equivlent of signing Harper etc. you could see this coming from the moment the trade was announced.

he’s a good player but needs other bats around him. He’s not carrying a team. We are going to need more offense from somewhere.

duncan_idaho · 03-21-2019, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

like DJ has said, in today’s FA market, the best you can hope for is a fair deal for both sides. Looks to be at market value.

We don’t have any 1B minor leaguers he’d block so, why not?

Gorman and Montero are both candidates to have to move across the diamond to 1B.

**BigRedChief** · 03-21-2019, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

Gorman and Montero are both candidates to have to move across the diamond to 1B.

not anymore.....

DJ's left nut · 03-21-2019, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

like DJ has said, in today’s FA market, the best you can hope for is a fair deal for both sides. Looks to be at market value.

We don’t have any 1B minor leaguers he’d block so, why not?

We absolutely do. In addition to Gorman and Montero, there's Baker and possibly Torres.

Locking up 1b with the most expensive contract on your team is just incredibly stupid, especially on an extension that doesn't even start until 32.

This entire sequence has been wrong-headed from the start.

oldandslow · 03-22-2019, 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

We absolutely do. In addition to Gorman and Montero, there's Baker and possibly Torres.

Locking up 1b with the most expensive contract on your team is just incredibly stupid, especially on an extension that doesn't even start until 32.

This entire sequence has been wrong-headed from the start.

And he will still outhit Harper next year and the year after that and the year after that.....as well as play better defense for less money. By the time he hits 34 we will turn him into Big Pappy west. And one of those fine first base prospects can take over.

I really like your posts DJ on this board and at birdsonthebat, but your man-love for Harper has blinded you on this one.

duncan_idaho · 03-22-2019, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldandslow

And he will still outhit Harper next year and the year after that and the year after that.....as well as play better defense for less money. By the time he hits 34 we will turn him into Big Pappy west. And one of those fine first base prospects can take over.

I really like your posts DJ on this board and at birdsonthebat, but your man-love for Harper has blinded you on this one.

Want to bet?

I’m with DJ. Harper is going to do huge things in Philadelphia and they’re never going to force him into CF, so his defensive value won’t take the hit it did the 2 years the Nats did that.

DJ's left nut · 03-22-2019, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

Want to bet?

I’m with DJ. Harper is going to do huge things in Philadelphia and they’re never going to force him into CF, so his defensive value won’t take the hit it did the 2 years the Nats did that.

And if his defense slides in the OF, give him an offseason and he'll be every bit the defensive 1b Goldschmidt already is. He's simply a better athlete.

He has faaaaar further to fall on the defensive spectrum than Goldschmidt does. Even if he continues to struggle in RF, you still have LF to go before you need to worry about making the 1b conversion. Harper's overall athleticism would likely translate to a plus defensive LFer; something similar to what Ozuna was billed as.

**BigRedChief** · 03-22-2019, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

We absolutely do. In addition to Gorman and Montero, there's Baker and possibly Torres.

Locking up 1b with the most expensive contract on your team is just incredibly stupid, especially on an extension that doesn't even start until 32.

This entire sequence has been wrong-headed from the start.

I'm with you on Dewitt's approach is not the one I'd take. Going for 90 wins and a WC is not winning baseball. Mo's FA signings flop way more than hit.

But that being said, You act like we got another Gyrko level guy. He's a golden glover. An All-Star. Going to give us 5.5+ WAR. He runs the bases well. By all accounts has a great attitude and work ethic. We gave up spare parts for the guy. If he went to FA next year, he'd be the #1 FA on the market. The FA market money is stupid money. Who are we going to get better than him in FA in the next two years?

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldandslow

I really like your posts DJ on this board and at birdsonthebat, but your man-love for Harper has blinded you on this one.

I had the man-love for Harper too. I said we should have gave him $350 million/10 and wrote off another $50 million for Fowler to go away. I've tried so many times to get into birdsonthebat and the admins never let me in. Has to be personal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

And if his defense slides in the OF, give him an offseason and he'll be every bit the defensive 1b Goldschmidt already is. He's simply a better athlete.

He has faaaaar further to fall on the defensive spectrum than Goldschmidt does. Even if he continues to struggle in RF, you still have LF to go before you need to worry about making the 1b conversion. Harper's overall athleticism would likely translate to a plus defensive LFer; something similar to what Ozuna was billed as.

Ozuna is gone next year. Fowler sucks. Carp is going to be a year older. All those players you mentioned are not ready for the majors yet. What were they supposed to do besides sign Harper? We had to get some more offensive production in the lineup. Most of what I've read says its a reasonable deal in today market.

**BigRedChief** · 03-23-2019, 10:25 AM

Goldschmidt's contract starts next year. We have him locked in for the next 6 years. Ages 31-36. AAV of $24.1 million salary for the 6 years.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 03-23-2019, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

Goldschmidt's contract starts next year. We have him locked in for the next 6 years. Ages 31-36. AAV of $24.1 million salary for the 6 years.

That's not good.

The best move they've made this spring is actually the Wieters signing.

**BigRedChief** · 03-24-2019, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

That's not good.

Why? Everything I've read says it was a good to fair deal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

The best move they've made this spring is actually the Wieters signing.

I wanted Harper. Didn't happen. Besides that move, what would you have done to get some offense into the lineup?

01-10-2019, 03:23 AM
BigRedChief Has a particular set of skills Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: On the water Casino cash: $-561038 VARSITY	**The Official 2019 STL Cardinals Thread Cardinals announce 25-man Opening Day roster for the 2019 season. Spoiler! The Cardinals today announced their 25-man Opening Day roster that includes four first-time Cardinals and 13 players that were developed within their organization. PITCHERS (12): 60 – John Brebbia-RHP, 22 – Jack Flaherty-RHP, 53 – John Gant- RHP, 49 – Jordan Hicks-RHP, 43 – Dakota Hudson- RHP, 55 – Dominic Leone-RHP, 59 – Mike Mayers- RHP, 21 – Andrew Miller-LHP, 39 – Miles Mikolas-RHP, 29 – Alex Reyes, RHP, 52 – Michael Wacha-RHP, 50 – Adam Wainwright- RHP; CATCHERS (2): 4 -Yadier Molina, 32 – Matt Wieters; INFIELDERS (6): 13 - Matt Carpenter, 12 – Paul DeJong, 46 – Paul Goldschmidt, 34 – Yario Muñoz, 33 – Drew Robinson, 16 – Kolten Wong; OUTFIELDERS (5): 46 – Harrison Bader, 25 - Dexter Fowler, 38 – José Martínez, 41 – Tyler O'Neill, 23 – Marcell Ozuna; DISABLED LIST (5): 27 - Brett Cecil (10-day, left hand Carpal Tunnel syndrome), 44 – Luke Gregerson (10-day, right shoulder impingement), 18 – Carlos Martínez (right shoulder cuff strain), 3 - Jedd Gyorko (10-day, right calf strain), 67 - Justin Williams (10-day, right hand 2nd metacarpal fracture). 2019 Opening Day Line up Spoiler! Starting lineup Matt Carpenter 3B Paul Goldschmidt 1B Paul DeJong SS Ozuna LF Yadier Molina C Dexter Fowler RF Kolten Wong 2B Harrison Bader CF Won the Central Division. Won the NLDS. NLDS Playoff roster Spoiler! Pitchers (12): Miles Mikolas, Jack Flaherty, Adam Wainwright, Dakota Hudson, Genesis Cabrera, Tyler Webb, Andrew Miller, John Brebbia, Daniel Ponce de Leon, Ryan Helsley, Giovanny Gallegos, Carlos Martinez. Catchers (2): Yadier Molina, Matt Wieters. Infielders (6): Paul Goldschmidt, Kolten Wong, Paul DeJong, Matt Carpenter, Tommy Edman, Yairo Munoz. Outfielders (5): Marcell Ozuna, Harrison Bader, Dexter Fowler, Jose Martinez, Randy Arozarena. NLDS Playoff Game 1 starting lineup Spoiler! 1. Dexter Fowler, CF 2. Tommy Edman, 3B 3. Paul Goldschmidt, 1B 4. Marcell Ozuna, LF 5. Yadier Molina, C 6. Paul DeJong, SS 7. Kolten Wong, 2B 8. Harrison Bader, CF 9. Miles Mikolas, P NLCS Game One Starting lineup Spoiler!** 1. Dexter Fowler, CF 2. Kolten Wong, 2B 3. Paul Goldschmidt, 1B 4. Marcell Ozuna, LF 5. Yadier Molina, C 6. Matt Carpenter 3B 7.Tommy Edmond RF 8. Paul DeJong, SS 9. Miles Mikolas P Last edited by BigRedChief; 10-11-2019 at 12:57 PM..
Posts: 81,254

03-23-2019, 10:25 AM	#178
BigRedChief Has a particular set of skills Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: On the water Casino cash: $-561038 VARSITY	Goldschmidt's contract starts next year. We have him locked in for the next 6 years. Ages 31-36. AAV of $24.1 million salary for the 6 years. __________________ Mahomes is not a game manager. Release the Kraken.
Posts: 81,254