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Old 04-23-2019, 11:30 AM  
VAGOMO 4 LIFE! VAGOMO 4 LIFE! is offline
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Frank Clark to KC!
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Old 04-23-2019, 02:33 PM   #751
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I do have an issue with giving up THAT much draft capital AND having to pay somebody. For that price, the Chiefs likely could have gotten up into the mid-teens to take a pass rusher in the draft and had 5 years of low cost. They are getting a very good football player but I don't see him as a tremendous upgrade over Houston so that's where I scratch my head. Injuries can happen to any player, but Houston was every bit as productive on the field and you could have had a young pass rusher learning with him. I like Clark, but if I'm about to hand a guy 105 million I'm not also trading two starting caliber draft picks away to get him. The plus is that Clark is only 25 and he's definitely a consistently good player. Let's hope it stays that way.
Yes, we could have traded up and drafted a pass rusher who we'd have cheap for 5 years. But he's not coming in day one and being a terror. The chances of that happening with players outside of the top 5-10 are slim. Clark gives us a presence at DE day 1.
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Old 04-23-2019, 02:34 PM   #752
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Originally Posted by duncan_idaho View Post
NFL front offices apparently disagree.

Go look at some of the quotes that are coming out after the deal in comparison do Clark and Ford

Clark : Ford
Mahomes : Joe Flacco

Riddick is vehement about how much better Clark is.

There’s a reason Ford’s comp was what it was.
In Riddick I trust.
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Old 04-23-2019, 02:34 PM   #753
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and imagine if our 2nd round pick from 3 years ago ever earns his way on the field! KPass might be the worst 2nd round pick of all time lol.
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Old 04-23-2019, 02:34 PM   #754
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Yes, we could have traded up and drafted a pass rusher who we'd have cheap for 5 years. But he's not coming in day one and being a terror. The chances of that happening with players outside of the top 5-10 are slim. Clark gives us a presence at DE day 1.
And his contract fits perfectly within the "Mahomes Window"
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Old 04-23-2019, 02:35 PM   #755
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Originally Posted by kccrow View Post
I do have an issue with giving up THAT much draft capital AND having to pay somebody. For that price, the Chiefs likely could have gotten up into the mid-teens to take a pass rusher in the draft and had 5 years of low cost. They are getting a very good football player but I don't see him as a tremendous upgrade over Houston so that's where I scratch my head. Injuries can happen to any player, but Houston was every bit as productive on the field and you could have had a young pass rusher learning with him. I like Clark, but if I'm about to hand a guy 105 million I'm not also trading two starting caliber draft picks away to get him. The plus is that Clark is only 25 and he's definitely a consistently good player. Let's hope it stays that way.
The value of the picks traded was 20-22 in the first this year (and that assumes those clubs are willing to trade for equal value). My guess is Veach poked around and knew exactly where he could get to and whom he thought was going to be available. And none of them seemed compelling.
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Old 04-23-2019, 02:35 PM   #756
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I think the problem was there was a school of thought and complacency around the idea that "this defense can't be any worse." And yes, if you're the 32nd ranked defense, that's true. But you can be much worse because the goal is not defensive rankings but giving up fewer points. And whatever you thought about Ford and Houston, the guys made a lot of plays that changed the face of games this past season and forced the other teams to adjust. Do you really think Jones was going to have the success he did rushing the passer without those guys on the edge?

We just didn't have enough talent in my view to be a clear upgrade from last season all considered. Now I'm completely convinced we'll be better and potentially much better.
Sincere thank you for posting this. People suggested that losing Ford and Houston wouldn't hurt because "we can't get any worse", which of course is nonsense. We have to replace their production or we could very well be worse, even if not in terms of ranking. This trade helps to do that, without question.
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Old 04-23-2019, 02:35 PM   #757
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Seattle Seahawks send: DE Frank Clark, 84th overall pick
Kansas City Chiefs send: 29th and 92nd picks, lesser of 2020 second-round picks

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Old 04-23-2019, 02:36 PM   #758
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Originally Posted by kccrow View Post
I do have an issue with giving up THAT much draft capital AND having to pay somebody. For that price, the Chiefs likely could have gotten up into the mid-teens to take a pass rusher in the draft and had 5 years of low cost. They are getting a very good football player but I don't see him as a tremendous upgrade over Houston so that's where I scratch my head. Injuries can happen to any player, but Houston was every bit as productive on the field and you could have had a young pass rusher learning with him. I like Clark, but if I'm about to hand a guy 105 million I'm not also trading two starting caliber draft picks away to get him. The plus is that Clark is only 25 and he's definitely a consistently good player. Let's hope it stays that way.
1+2 gets them to uh, 19 I think. It's not a given they would get an edge rusher they wanted there.
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Old 04-23-2019, 02:36 PM   #759
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We apparently should have traded up in the 1st.....spending draft picks like we are now....for an unproven player that may or may not be there.
Yup. I knew I’d seen this before.

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Old 04-23-2019, 02:36 PM   #760
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We better start investing in WRs now, then.

We can't afford Tyreek now, so it appears we were going to let him walk after this crap surfaced.

I really doubt we're going to keep Watkins over the life of his contract (and to be honest, I don't really want him).

So get going. Draft one early now, and draft one next year too.
I think this could be an indicator that Tyreek won't be getting his payday from the Chiefs anymore.
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Old 04-23-2019, 02:36 PM   #761
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ONE 2ND ROUND PICK ISNT A LOT!!!!! ALSO WE MOVED UP IN THE 3RD ROUND!!!!

**** the money, teams will be more cap once the new CBA is done.
One pick? Are you forgetting the first round pick, which by itself is more than the Chiefs should have gave Seattle.
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Old 04-23-2019, 02:36 PM   #762
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I view it as...

Chiefs give:
Dee Ford
1st round (29)

Chiefs get:
Frank Clark
2nd round upgrade in 2020 (49ers pick)
3rd upgrade in 2019 (Seattle vs KC, 9 spots)

Unless you view Clark as a minimal upgrade from Ford, that seems pretty fair to me.

2019 #29 value: 640
2019 # 84 value: 170 (+ 38 from 93)

For sake of the 2020 pick, let’s say the 49ers improve and end up with the 14th pick in round 2: value: 440

If the Chiefs are in the bottom five of round 2 again, you’re looking at value ranging: 292-270 (+150-170)

Let’s keep the numbers round and say they end up gaining 200 draft value points overall. That’s the equivalent of a mid-3rd round pick.

... (edit)
Which means the overall payout in draft pick value equates to basically a mid-2nd
In this context it doesn’t seem like a bad deal at all. Prior to this year (contract year for Dee) people didn’t even want his 5th year option & were seething at the tag. We’re in win now mode with Pats rookie deal. I’m here for it!
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Old 04-23-2019, 02:37 PM   #763
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I like it. A young proven probowler.
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Old 04-23-2019, 02:37 PM   #764
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I never said Clark wasn't better.

I said, "Ford isn't 50% of Clark" is a bunch of hyperbole.

That's ridiculous. And Ford's run defense is completely over blown.

No, run defense may not be his forte, but his lack of run D is being completely overblown.
This. Our run defense was trash because of hitchens and Ragland not because of Ford.
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Old 04-23-2019, 02:38 PM   #765
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http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/2...g-signing-move



Seattle Seahawks send: DE Frank Clark, 84th overall pick
Kansas City Chiefs send: 29th and 92nd picks, lesser of 2020 second-round picks

Seahawks grade: B
Chiefs grade: D+
what a terrible reasoning he put out. Doesn't even make any sense.
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