**** you, Dee Ford

[Dr. Yu Weed Tard]

Sack of ****ing shit.

[O.city]

I don't know that he could have been a Peters type guy early, maybe a little better in coverage but no the turnover type obviously.

Looking at rookies from last years 2nd in terms of CB, Maybe a Josh Jackson type? Not great but decent?

[staylor26]

Originally Posted by O.city

I think he could have done it early, but I'm not sure. Seems to fit.

Lol yea ok. You’re full of shit dude.

Even DJ said it back when the draft process was going on. The likelihood of drafting a corner at 29 that even would’ve been as good as Nelson was low. I’m sure you agreed with him at the time, but now here you are.

[staylor26]

Originally Posted by O.city

I don't know that he could have been a Peters type guy early, maybe a little better in coverage but no the turnover type obviously.

Looking at rookies from last years 2nd in terms of CB, Maybe a Josh Jackson type? Not great but decent?

He was so decent there was talk about him moving to safety.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by staylor26

Lol yea ok. You’re full of shit dude.

Even DJ said it back when the draft process was going on. The likelihood of drafting a corner at 29 that even would’ve been as good as Nelson year 1 was low. I’m sure you agreed with him at the time m, but now here you are.

Sure, but even a guy as good as Nelson to start would have had value because you'd have 5 years of pretty cheap play for that.

I don't think you're getting a star at CB at 29, especially in his first year. Maybe he develops into Byron Jones (who was taken in that area) eventually, but it's not all about that first year.

That's my argument here. It's fine that they did what they did, I get it. But Clark has to be an ass kicker, right now, and for a while for them to come out even equal.

You were a Nelson fan anyway, why wouldn't you want another one of those?

[O.city]

Originally Posted by staylor26

He was so decent there was talk about him moving to safety.

Awuzie was another 2nd rounder that was pretty solid early (when he wasn't hurt).

[O.city]

T'redavious White was a late first rounder that was good early.

A lot would have depended on coaching (pretty much a big factor in any rookie having a good season no matter the position).

[O.city]

Originally Posted by staylor26

How often are there good rookie corners? Jessie Bates and Justin Reid both had good rookie years. How many good rookie corners were there taken outside of the 1st?

And I said arguably. Reading comprehension issues? It’s either corner or DL. Meanwhile, safety is probably one of the easier ones.

Also, dunno if you meant to say something different but those 2 are safeties.

[staylor26]

Originally Posted by O.city

Also, dunno if you meant to say something different but those 2 are safeties.

Yea that was my point. It’s a lot more common with safeties. Ronnie Harrison was another one last year. That’s 3 in one class that weren’t 1st rounders. You can’t even find one corner outside the 1st in the last few years that was a good rookie.

[staylor26]

Awuzie started 6 games his rookie year. What a HUGE impact!

White is literally the only guy you can give me and he was a 1st rounder. Point made.

[staylor26]

Originally Posted by O.city

Sure, but even a guy as good as Nelson to start would have had value because you'd have 5 years of pretty cheap play for that.

I don't think you're getting a star at CB at 29, especially in his first year. Maybe he develops into Byron Jones (who was taken in that area) eventually, but it's not all about that first year.

That's my argument here. It's fine that they did what they did, I get it. But Clark has to be an ass kicker, right now, and for a while for them to come out even equal.

You were a Nelson fan anyway, why wouldn't you want another one of those?

I was not a Nelson “fan”. I said he didn’t suck nearly as bad as CP thought he did. I defended him. If I were a fan, I wouldn’t have been so quick to say let him walk giving the need at the position. He was a decent 3rd round pick that we got some value out of for a couple years. That’s it.

If you think drafting another Nelson at 29 was better than getting an elite edge rusher, you’re dumber than I thought.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by staylor26

Awuzie started 6 games his rookie year. What a HUGE impact!

White is literally the only guy you can give me and he was a 1st rounder. Point made.

White was taken at 27 and Murphy at 33

I figure that’s more comparable than a corner taken late 2nd

[O.city]

Originally Posted by staylor26

I was not a Nelson “fan”. I said he didn’t suck nearly as bad as CP thought he did. I defended him. If I were a fan, I wouldn’t have been so quick to say let him walk giving the need at the position. He was a decent 3rd round pick that we got some value out of for a couple years. That’s it.

If you think drafting another Nelson at 29 was better than getting an elite edge rusher, you’re dumber than I thought.

If Nelson is the guys ceiling, sure it would be dumb

But if that’s his baseline and he could develop into a Byron Jones type player for a cheap 5 years there is a value discussion

Again, my whole thing is about value and cap dollars.

[Buehler445]

Originally Posted by staylor26

I was not a Nelson “fan”. I said he didn’t suck nearly as bad as CP thought he did. I defended him. If I were a fan, I wouldn’t have been so quick to say let him walk giving the need at the position. He was a decent 3rd round pick that we got some value out of for a couple years. That’s it.

If you think drafting another Nelson at 29 was better than getting an elite edge rusher, you’re dumber than I thought.

That’s where I was too. He’s better than he was given credit. Then I figured out what he was going to make. Later dude.

[staylor26]

Originally Posted by O.city

White was taken at 27 and Murphy at 33

I figure that’s more comparable than a corner taken late 2nd

But I never said it doesn’t happen. I said it doesn’t happen often and is unlikely. The chances are slim that Murphy turns out as good as White, let alone has a rookie season like he did.

And about the Nelson thing, if you’re going to talk about ceilings, I’m not going to disagree. That’s not what we’re talking about though. We’re talking about the immediate impact of a guy like Clark versus a rookie corner on a team that’s trying to win a SB this year, not next.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by staylor26

But I never said it doesn’t happen. I said it doesn’t happen often and is unlikely. The chances are slim that Murphy turns out as good as White, let alone has a rookie season like he did.

And about the Nelson thing, if you’re going to talk about ceilings, I’m not going to disagree. That’s not what we’re talking about though. We’re talking about the immediate impact of a guy like Clark versus a rookie corner on a team that’s trying to win a SB this year, not next.

Well, yeah, you're for sure gonna have more immediate impact with a current player, unless something unforeseen happens.

But it also wouldn't have been straight across. You'd have had more money to play with to bring in another pass rusher or something (although not as good of a player as Clark, likely).

You may have had Murphy or whoever at 29. Yeah, they probably aren't gonna be Deion year 1, but I'm not sure the "all in this year" strategy is the best way to go about it.