***OFFICIAL 2019 Chiefs Training Camp Thread***

[RealSNR]

Tweets from https://twitter.com/RMSWeather/lists/chiefs


In the meantime, this gem from Andy Reid's press conference today:

Andy Reid was asked if he did anything fun or exotic this offseason: “I attacked a couple Chile rellenos.”

— Jeff Darlington (@JeffDarlington) July 23, 2019

[RunKC]

Originally Posted by O.city

That's the issue though, the Chiefs didn't take what the defense gave them last year. They ****ing stuck it to defenses because they're just more talented than defenses.

Sure the legit defenses like the Ravens gave them fits. The Chiefs also weren't healthy at that point. Now, health will always be a potential pitfall, but that's with every team.

Just coming back to Andy here though. How many times have we seen him just scheme dudes open that aren't really even that talented of players?

Now you give him a well oiled Ferrari with a driver that can push it to it's absolute best output and we want them to what, drive the speed limit?

Why?

That doesn’t mean that they are any less lethal. Take a look at some of the games last year. There were times that Pat tried to go deep for the big play when he had an easy first down in front of him and it took the offense off the field.

There was a play in Seattle where it was 3rd and 2. Pat left the pocket to his right and could have easily ran for the first down. Instead he launched it 50 yards downfield and ended up underthrowing it and forced a punt.

If there’s 3 safeties on the field playing the deep ball (hint: there will be a lot of the time) then why not take the easy money and get 6,7,10, 12 yard gains?

There’s too much talent. Players will get open.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by Best22

Because sometimes it’s better to take the high% play. There is a balance to this and Mahomes did make many “high% passes” but we did leave a few on the table, think first drive vs Seattle and Mahomes threw a deep 50/50 ball when he could’ve easily scrambled the the first on 3rd and 1.

Better, consistent footwork, especially in the pocket, will make him more accurate. It’s basically just going to make Mahomes even more lethal.

But not everyone watches that much Mahomes film, so pundits aren’t 100% right in everything. But it is important to not get too preoccupied with making the “big play.”

That being said, Mahomes is good at not forcing things, and I think alot of people don’t realize this. So I’d say Mahomes needs to play similar to last year but there will be short passing opportunities that he needs to make to keep drives alive that he missed last year. Basically the difference between zero experience, and experience.

Sure, I mean, if a guy is open that's one thing.

But this "control the clock and keep the defense off the field" shit just isn't what they need to do.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by RunKC

That doesn’t mean that they are any less lethal. Take a look at some of the games last year. There were times that Pat tried to go deep for the big play when he had an easy first down in front of him and it took the offense off the field.

There was a play in Seattle where it was 3rd and 2. Pat left the pocket to his right and could have easily ran for the first down. Instead he launched it 50 yards downfield and ended up underthrowing it and forced a punt.

If there’s 3 safeties on the field playing the deep ball (hint: there will be a lot of the time) then why not take the easy money and get 6,7,10, 12 yard gains?

There’s too much talent. Players will get open.

Because you're letting the defense dictate what you do.

So there are 3 examples you made there of where it took the offense off the field. How many are there of the other way where him being aggressive and taking the kill shot scored points or stressed the defense too a breaking point?

First possession in the 2nd half of the AFCC game he did the same thing on 3rd and 2. Pretty much exactly what you're saying. How'd that play turn out?

[Marcellus]

Originally Posted by O.city

The whole "the offense scored too fast or too much for the defense" stuff is just wrong too, in my opinion.

The best thing you can do for your defense is get them leads and make other offenses more predictable aka make them have to throw the ball more.

The whole "the defense was tired" shit just doesn't fly for me in regards to the Chiefs last year. How many times did they start the ****ing game giving up long drives and being shitty?

Seth Keysor did an article on this whole subject this offseason and used statistical data to kill the theory its a bad thing for your offense to be able to score too quickly.

The biggest issue with out defense was getting off the field on 3rd down, that's not related to the offense scoring too fast.

Edit: Found it.

https://theathletic.com/794296/2019/...e-this-season/

[O.city]

Originally Posted by Marcellus

Seth Kyser did an article on this whole subject this offseason and used statistical data to kill the theory its a bad thing for your offense to be able to score too quickly.

The biggest issue with out defense was getting off the field on 3rd down, that's not related to the offense scoring too fast.

Yep. The biggest problem with the Chiefs defense last year was that it sucked. It didn't suck because the offense made them too tired. It sucked because of coaching and talent and everything.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Titty Meat

If Miller leaped Ward and Fuller this defense sucks

Ain't no shit there.

Gents, I really don't care how he's looked in camp. That guy does NOT have the athleticism to play CB in the NFL. Not as a starting boundary corner at the very least.

I'm trying to think of a comparison and I'm thinking Bartee may even be too generous. If he's the long-term starter out wide, quarterbacks will start throwing deep balls out his way as a bail-out mechanism in an attempt to draw a penalty. He cannot stay in a WRs pocket and he'll have to grab to avoid the deep completion. Worse still, he does a fine job of driving on a play in front of him but a pretty awful job of tracking the ball coming up and over him so he won't be getting his head turned either.

He's a guy you could maybe see playing safety because he does well to get downhill and seems to read plays well enough when they're in front of him. And maaaaaaybe he could be used as a dime CB or 3rd CB since he seems to use his feet well over short distances.

But if that guys your starting CB out wide, you are proper ****ed. I'm hoping this is just a motivational ploy; maybe Spags thinks that Ward and Fuller are playing a little too comfortable right now since Reasier got hurt and Wade fell off; there really wasn't a credible threat to their jobs anymore. So in the absence of one, Spags will try to invent one.

Because if Miller's truly the 2nd best CB on this team, we'll need every bit of that 36 PPG scoring average being predicted.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by BossChief

Historically speaking, you’re probably right.

Ward played really well for us last year. Miller is giving him a battle for the job.

I'm pretty sure that's what Spags wants Ward to think.

I haven't seen anything to support it. Ward is playing better and I don't think it's that close.

[R Clark]

If this guy is as bad as bartee , he shouldn’t be allowed on the field. I haven’t paid that close of attention to him, but he surely isn’t that bad.

[RunKC]

Originally Posted by O.city

Because you're letting the defense dictate what you do.

So there are 3 examples you made there of where it took the offense off the field. How many are there of the other way where him being aggressive and taking the kill shot scored points or stressed the defense too a breaking point?

First possession in the 2nd half of the AFCC game he did the same thing on 3rd and 2. Pretty much exactly what you're saying. How'd that play turn out?

I’m fine with that. Sammy was open and it was clearly Pat’s best option. I remember the Pats clogging escape lanes and had the intermediate level covered well.

It’s basically plays like this where they are low percentage. LB tackling you as you throw into double coverage. Just take the points, especially against the Pats.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by SAUTO

Watkins does a little euro step thing that's pretty effective in the open field

He does, but that's such a dangerous thing to do out there. If field conditions are a little slippery - boom; groin pull. Or if you don't see someone coming and you're in the middle of it, that elongated stride opens you up to getting knocked into !@#$ing orbit.

It's a little like hurdling a guy - I'm gonna look the other way if you do it when it's important. But man, don't make a habit of shit like that; it's awfully rare that a single play is more important than the 2-4 weeks you may miss by getting your dick knocked into the turf.

Discretion is often times the better part of valor in this league. Not when your Marcus Peters out there making 'business decisions' but when you're Watkins looking at trying to get another 5 yards at the risk of several games out. Maybe just take what you're given and run back fresh to the huddle without a hit on your legs/body.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by RunKC

I’m fine with that. Sammy was open and it was clearly Pat’s best option. I remember the Pats clogging escape lanes and had the intermediate level covered well.

It’s basically plays like this where they are low percentage. LB tackling you as you throw into double coverage. Just take the points, especially against the Pats.

But in the Seattle game, Robinson was open too.

Obviously, in that play you need to throw it away and live to fight another day. But Pat is going to be aggressive. We're gonna have to just get used to it.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

He does, but that's such a dangerous thing to do out there. If field conditions are a little slippery - boom; groin pull. Or if you don't see someone coming and you're in the middle of it, that elongated stride opens you up to getting knocked into !@#$ing orbit.

It's a little like hurdling a guy - I'm gonna look the other way if you do it when it's important. But man, don't make a habit of shit like that; it's awfully rare that a single play is more important than the 2-4 weeks you may miss by getting your dick knocked into the turf.

Discretion is often times the better part of valor in this league. Not when your Marcus Peters out there making 'business decisions' but when you're Watkins looking at trying to get another 5 yards at the risk of several games out. Maybe just take what you're given and run back fresh to the huddle without a hit on your legs/body.

There were more than a few times last year where he'd duck his shoulder into a safety or Cb running down the sideline, made me cringe every time. Just step out of bounds. The key to playing this game is to avoid getting hit. Guys are just to big and fast, you can't survive playing that way.

[-King-]

Originally Posted by O.city

Because you're letting the defense dictate what you do.

So there are 3 examples you made there of where it took the offense off the field. How many are there of the other way where him being aggressive and taking the kill shot scored points or stressed the defense too a breaking point?

First possession in the 2nd half of the AFCC game he did the same thing on 3rd and 2. Pretty much exactly what you're saying. How'd that play turn out?

You can be aggressive while at times taking what the defense gives you. It's not a one or the other situation. Sometimes that small dump off can give you a first down and let you keep the drive going or it can even get you more yards than the downfield pass because of the YAC available.

I don't think anyone is saying neuter Mahomes. But yes there were times where he tried to do too much and it ****ed us.

[RunKC]

Originally Posted by -King-

You can be aggressive while at times taking what the defense gives you. It's not a one or the other situation. Sometimes that small dump off can give you a first down and let you keep the drive going or it can even get you more yards than the downfield pass because of the YAC available.

I don't think anyone is saying neuter Mahomes. But yes there were times where he tried to do too much and it ****ed us.

^ yup this is my takeaway

[Marcellus]

Originally Posted by -King-

You can be aggressive while at times taking what the defense gives you. It's not a one or the other situation. Sometimes that small dump off can give you a first down and let you keep the drive going or it can even get you more yards than the downfield pass because of the YAC available.

I don't think anyone is saying neuter Mahomes. But yes there were times where he tried to do too much and it ****ed us.

The Rams game is the only game I can think of he made enough mistakes to lose the game. Every other loss was on the defense.