***NON-POLITICAL COVID-19 Discussion Thread***

[JakeF]

A couple of reminders...

Originally Posted by Bwana

Once again, don't come in this thread with some kind of political agenda, or you will be shown the door. If you want to go that route, there is a thread about this in DC.

Originally Posted by Dartgod

People, there is a lot of good information in this thread, let's try to keep the petty bickering to a minimum.

We all have varying opinions about the impact of this, the numbers, etc. We will all never agree with each other. But we can all keep it civil.

Thanks!

Click here for the original OP:

Spoiler!

Apparently the CoronaVirus can survive on a inanimate objects, such as door knobs, for 9 days.

California coronavirus case could be first spread within U.S. community, CDC says
By SOUMYA KARLAMANGLA, JACLYN COSGROVE
FEB. 26, 2020 8:04 PM

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention is investigating what could be the first case of novel coronavirus in the United States involving a patient in California who neither recently traveled out of the country nor was in contact with someone who did.

“At this time, the patient’s exposure is unknown. It’s possible this could be an instance of community spread of COVID-19, which would be the first time this has happened in the United States,” the CDC said in a statement. “Community spread means spread of an illness for which the source of infection is unknown. It’s also possible, however, that the patient may have been exposed to a returned traveler who was infected.”

The individual is a resident of Solano County and is receiving medical care in Sacramento County, according to the state Department of Public Health.

The CDC said the “case was detected through the U.S. public health system — picked up by astute clinicians.”

Officials at UC Davis Medical Center expanded on what the federal agency might have meant by that in an email sent Wednesday, as reported by the Davis Enterprise newspaper.

The patient arrived at UC Davis Medical Center from another hospital Feb. 19 and “had already been intubated, was on a ventilator, and given droplet protection orders because of an undiagnosed and suspected viral condition,” according to an email sent by UC Davis officials that was obtained by the Davis Enterprise.

The staff at UC Davis requested COVID-19 testing by the CDC, but because the patient didn’t fit the CDC’s existing criteria for the virus, a test wasn’t immediately administered, according to the email. The CDC then ordered the test Sunday, and results were announced Wednesday. Hospital administrators reportedly said in the email that despite these issues, there has been minimal exposure at the hospital because of safety protocols they have in place.

A UC Davis Health spokesperson declined Wednesday evening to share the email with The Times.

Since Feb. 2, more than 8,400 returning travelers from China have entered California, according to the state health department. They have been advised to self-quarantine for 14 days and limit interactions with others as much as possible, officials said.

“This is a new virus, and while we are still learning about it, there is a lot we already know,” Dr. Sonia Angell, director of the California Department of Public Health, said in a statement. “We have been anticipating the potential for such a case in the U.S., and given our close familial, social and business relationships with China, it is not unexpected that the first case in the U.S. would be in California.”

It is not clear how the person became infected, but public health workers could not identify any contacts with people who had traveled to China or other areas where the virus is widespread. That raises concern that the virus is spreading in the United States, creating a challenge for public health officials, experts say.

“It’s the first signal that we could be having silent transmission in the community,” said Lawrence Gostin, director of the World Health Organization Collaborating Center on National and Global Health Law. “It probably means there are many more cases out there, and it probably means this individual has infected others, and now it’s a race to try to find out who that person has infected.”

On Tuesday, the CDC offered its most serious warning to date that the United States should expect and prepare for the coronavirus to become a more widespread health issue.

“Ultimately, we expect we will see coronavirus spread in this country,” said Nancy Messonnier, director of the CDC’s National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases. “It’s not so much a question of if, but a question of when.”

According to the CDC’s latest count Wednesday morning, 59 U.S. residents have tested positive for the new strain of coronavirus — 42 of whom are repatriated citizens from a Diamond Princess cruise. That number has grown by two since Messonnier’s last count Tuesday, although the CDC was not immediately available to offer details on the additional cases.

More than 82,000 cases of coronavirus have been reported globally, and more than 2,700 people have died, with the majority in mainland China, the epicenter of the outbreak.

But public health leaders have repeatedly reminded residents that the health risk from the novel coronavirus to the general public remains low.

“While COVID-19 has a high transmission rate, it has a low mortality rate,” the state Department of Public Health said in a statement Wednesday. “From the international data we have, of those who have tested positive for COVID-19, approximately 80% do not exhibit symptoms that would require hospitalization. There have been no confirmed deaths related to COVID-19 in the United States to date.”

CDC officials have also warned that although the virus is likely to spread in U.S. communities, the flu still poses a greater risk.

Gostin said the news of potential silent transmission does not eliminate the possibility of containing the virus in the U.S. and preventing an outbreak.

“There are few enough cases that we should at least try,” he said. “Most of us are not optimistic that that will be successful, but we’re still in the position to try.”

[BleedingRed]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

For every one of those anecdotal responses, there's also this response:

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/healt...isn-t-n1177556

No 'miraculous recovery': Some ICU doctors say hydroxychloroquine isn't helping sickest patients

Many doctors suspect that if the drug does turn out to be beneficial, it may work better early on in the course of the illness.

Well yeah.........

That's why I'd like to reach a consensus faster. I'm not arguing that its a cure all. Maybe you guys are not understanding my position.

I look at Hydrixychloroquine as a therapeutic and a possible prophylaxis. Not a cure.

[Monticore]

My wife and all the other ER Doctors I have talked to have said the same thing , the early trials or anecdotal evidence were very incomplete with holes big enough to drive a truck through, could that change absolutely or it could be some other drugs they are testing .

[BleedingRed]

Originally Posted by Donger

My evidence? What are you talking about?

My position on this is and has been that there has not been a controlled trial of this completed yet. That's it. Therefore, I'm not pimping it. I hope that the results of the trial are positive. What will your reaction be if it is not?

My reaction will be "Well Shit", because waiting for a vaccine that is a long way off sucks.

I understand you waiting. That's fine, what I dont understand is people saying there is no evidence or that it doesn't work. Then in the same breath claiming studies have to be done. "But yeah it doesnt work"

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by BleedingRed

Well yeah.........

That's why I'd like to reach a consensus faster. I'm not arguing that its a cure all. Maybe you guys are not understanding my position.

I look at Hydrixychloroquine as a therapeutic and a possible prophylaxis. Not a cure.

Clinical Trials can't happen any faster.

And secondly, the drug combo, if effective, would only slow down the viral replication, not cure anyone.

And yet, thousands continue to die each day despite people like you saying that they "believe" it works.

Why is that, again?

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath15

Which means there are plenty of "doctors" breaking their oath everyday by promoting something that hasn't been rightfully tested or approved to treat COVID-19.

It's being tested for off-label use, and that's fine. I understand the desire to try therapeutics, including unproven ones, in this case, without strong evidence. But people need to understand that the evidence is not strong.

Unfortunately, clinicians overstate efficacy and underestimate safety concerns. It's basically the axiom of the need for evidence-based medicine.

We need rigorously designed trials in theory, but I also know that we don't have time for them in this case. Consequently, any information taken from those trials must be viewed with extreme skepticism, because the normal procedures for constructing a truly robust trial aren't being followed and can't be followed to the extent we need for a truly definitive judgment.

[Ninerfan11]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

For every one of those anecdotal responses, there's also this response:

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/healt...isn-t-n1177556

No 'miraculous recovery': Some ICU doctors say hydroxychloroquine isn't helping sickest patients

Many doctors suspect that if the drug does turn out to be beneficial, it may work better early on in the course of the illness.

To be fair, most of the protocols call for early ingestion. Earlier the better, it's not a cure.

[Donger]

Originally Posted by BleedingRed

My reaction will be "Well Shit", because waiting for a vaccine that is a long way off sucks.

I understand you waiting. That's fine, what I dont understand is people saying there is no evidence or that it doesn't work. Then in the same breath claiming studies have to be done. "But yeah it doesnt work"

Okay.

There's no non-anecdotal evidence that it works. Yes, people are saying that controlled trials have to be performed. That's how we get non-anecdotal evidence. It's not hard to understand at all. It's called science.

[BleedingRed]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Clinical Trials can't happen any faster.

And secondly, the drug combo, if effective, would only slow down the viral replication, not cure anyone.

And yet, thousands continue to die each day despite people like you saying that they "believe" it works.

Why is that, again?

Because they haven't received the medication in a timely fashion? Dr. to scared because of all the people screaming it doesn't work etc. No official guidance? They were too far along before they received it? They have underlining conditions which would make it not effective for them?

All I'm saying it with the dot connecting, is Governments know more than me and you. And currently world governments are buying the shit out of the drug.

So you have your opinion and I have mine.

[Titty Meat]

Originally Posted by Monticore

My wife and all the other ER Doctors I have talked to have said the same thing , the early trials or anecdotal evidence were very incomplete with holes big enough to drive a truck through, could that change absolutely or it could be some other drugs they are testing .

I showed my buddy who's in pharmacy claims So plaqueni for the cytokine storm and hydroxychloroquine could work. He also said something about the vents thing actually making some of the cases worse.
Thought that was interesting.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

It's the opposite. HCQ raises pH, which prevents endocytosis of the viron.

Azithromycin is a broad-spectrum antibiotic that also works against atypical pathogens. Not all broad-spectrums work against atypicals (or anaerobes for that matter). Not all broad-spectrum antibiotics penetrate the lung tissue adequately. Azithromycin is commonly used in CAP because it works against atypicals and achieves suitable concentrations in the lungs. It is widely distributed and has a long half-life so you don't need to dose several times per day. The potential benefit of azithromycin in this case may also be from its immunomodulatory effects--not because it is wiping out bacteria.

Okay - presuming I flipped the 'why' on how the HCL works (or did a poor job of trying to synthesize my understanding of it) - do you not agree that the present theory requires all 3 components? Or at the very least, 2 of them (the zinc thing has always been more hit/miss; some think it's a bit of a red herring since it already exists in the body).

You can't just toss out a study that doses HCL on its own and say "look - proof this won't accomplish anything..."

The combined impact of HCL and Z-pack seems to be the focus, not just the idea that HCL on its own accomplishes anything. Thanks for clarification on the Z-Pack; my concern has been that the juice needs to be worth the squeeze on this thing. If it turns out we mass doze with azithromycin and in so doing create resistance to it that makes it less effective for those treatments its currently proven VERY good at, we've robbed peter to pay paul. I was hopeful that there were a myriad of broad-spectrum antibiotics that could be used in its stead to avoid that issue.

That's why I've been more than content holding back on using this as a wholesale treatment regiment. The juice has to be worth the squeeze. If it turns out the Z-pack is effective and is the ONLY effective complementary antiobiotic, then we need to make sure it's effective ENOUGH to justify the long-term risk that could come from significant distribution of an antibiotic that could then lead to resistance problems in areas it's effectively treated for years.

[BleedingRed]

Originally Posted by Donger

Okay.

There's no non-anecdotal evidence that it works. Yes, people are saying that controlled trials have to be performed. That's how we get non-anecdotal evidence. It's not hard to understand at all. It's called science.

I mean the definition of controlled studies is another thing. Why were those French studies not worth noting? Too small?

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by BleedingRed

Because they haven't received the medication in a timely fashion? Dr. to scared because of all the people screaming it doesn't work etc. No official guidance? They were too far along before they received it? They have underlining conditions which would make it not effective for them?

All I'm saying it with the dot connecting, is Governments know more than me and you. And currently world governments are buying the shit out of the drug.

So you have your opinion and I have mine.

Um, no, mine is not an "Opinion", my view is based on the fact that the SCIENCE isn't there yet to determine whether or not it's effective against COVID-19.

You, on the other hand, "believe" that this med works, despite having no background in biology, chemistry, cardiology, neuroscience or pharmacology, because someone else said so.

That's not evidence.

[Donger]

Originally Posted by BleedingRed

I mean the definition of controlled studies is another thing. Why were those French studies not worth noting? Too small?

Have they even released the details of their "studies" which show they were controlled and scientifically-valid?

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by LiveSteam

Have the death estimates dropped to 60,000 or was that just job site BS talk?

61K down from 81K 2 days ago.

And 140K hospitalized down to 90K.

I mean...I guess they re-fixed their social distancing number. Again.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Originally Posted by Donger

Have they even released the details of their "studies" which show they were controlled and scientifically-valid?

My Spidey Senses are telling me the bold is gonna be a problem.