Cardinals ***Official 2020 STL Cardinals Thread***

DJ's left nut · 09-01-2020, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rams Fan

Then Mozeliak is towing the company line from his boss.

As long as the Cardinals win in the mid-80s consistently along with PO appearances, along with making $, Mo is safe.

No doubt.

But good GMs can do that AND improve their teams. Again, look no further than organizations spending far less for far greater results.

Yeah, Mozeliak is scraping by because his owner set a low bar - but with the resources he has at his disposal, he should be doing FAR better and with little/no more risk.

The amount of capital he's pissed away is staggering. A team with no GM at all - just a guy who signs checks and promotes from within while letting pending FAs walk - would've built a better team than what Mozeliak's built since 2014.

He's done a spectacularly bad job and only the low expectations of DeWitt has allowed him to keep his job.

**BigRedChief** · 09-01-2020, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

He's done a spectacularly bad job and only the low expectations of DeWitt has allowed him to keep his job.

The only conclusion that we as fans can take from this consistent approach is that its not a bug, its a feature. The owner wants to make money. Sneak into the playoffs and get lucky. Thats the plan.

I think whats missing in Dewitt's plan is those 2004/2005/2006/2011/2013 teams had way more talent. They under-performed in the playoffs or during the season. Depends on the year. But, if it clicked, get lucky in the playoffs like it seems is Dewitt's plan, they had talent to win when they got on a roll.

The teams I'm seeing since 2014 needs it to go perfect to win in the playoffs.

DJ's left nut · 09-01-2020, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

The only conclusion that we as fans can take from this consistent approach is that its not a bug, its a feature. The owner wants to make money. Sneak into the playoffs and get lucky. Thats the plan.

I think whats missing in Dewitt's plan is those 2004/2005/2006/2011/2013 teams had way more talent. They under-performed in the playoffs or during the season. Depends on the year. But, if it clicked, get lucky in the playoffs like it seems is Dewitt's plan, they had talent to win when they got on a roll.

The teams I'm seeing since 2014 needs it to go perfect to win in the playoffs.

Not gonna happen w/ 3 rounds. DEFINITELY won't happen w/ 4 when the playoff expansions become permanent.

Baseball isn't hockey where a goalie can steal you 4 rounds by being unconscious. It's not basketball where you can have one guy just strafe creation for 16-20 games. It's not football where it's 1 and done and a guy like Flacco can just get hot for 3 games.

There's an element of crapshoot to a particular round, but man, it STILL requires a difference-maker somewhere and the Cardinals flat do not have one. The closest they can point to is Flaherty and he's not enough on his own. You have to reach a threshhold level of talent and the Cardinals do not seem inclined to attempt to do so.

You cannot steal a World Series if you're not trying. Even the 2006 Cardinals, arguably the weakest WS winner ever, had 4 guys in the midst of HoF caliber careers who had simply underperformed to that point. Yeah, their record sucked, but they had Carpenter, Molina, Pujols, Rolen and Edmonds on that squad and mostly healthy by the post-season.

This team has 1 guy who can hang with that level of player (Flaherty) another who's showing a rebound to that level (Goldschmidt) and....what? The second most valuable player on this team right now is almost certainly Brad !@#$ing Miller.

And that's to say nothing of the 2011 squad or the 2004/5 squads.

I mean this team isn't even a reasonable facsimile of teams built back when Dewitt gave a shit. And it COULD'VE been.

But our owner doesn't care and our GM is an idiot.

**BigRedChief** · 09-01-2020, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

You cannot steal a World Series if you're not trying. Even the 2006 Cardinals, arguably the weakest WS winner ever, had 4 guys in the midst of HoF caliber careers who had simply underperformed to that point. Yeah, their record sucked, but they had Carpenter, Molina, Pujols, Rolen and Edmonds on that squad and mostly healthy by the post-season.

This team has 1 guy who can hang with that level of player (Flaherty) another who's showing a rebound to that level (Goldschmidt) and....what? The second most valuable player on this team right now is almost certainly Brad !@#$ing Miller.

And that's to say nothing of the 2011 squad or the 2004/5 squads.

I mean this team isn't even a reasonable facsimile of teams built back when Dewitt gave a shit. And it COULD'VE been.

But our owner doesn't care and our GM is an idiot.

Exactly. Who on this team belongs/replace these guys?

Walker
Pujols
Rolen
Edmonds
Sanders

Marco Polo · 09-01-2020, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

Exactly. Who on this team belongs/replace these guys?

Walker
Pujols
Rolen
Edmonds
Sanders

One thing about Jockety- he didn't give a **** about making trades or disrupting the clubhouse morale like Mo does. The trading deadline was always exciting with Walt but always a yawn with Mo. I may hate Mo more than I hated Carl Peterson and the turd that followed.

DJ's left nut · 09-01-2020, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marco Polo

One thing about Jockety- he didn't give a **** about making trades or disrupting the clubhouse morale like Mo does. The trading deadline was always exciting with Walt but always a yawn with Mo. I may hate Mo more than I hated Carl Peterson and the turd that followed.

Jocketty was never afraid of being wrong.

Mozeliak's terrified of it.

That pretty much sums up the difference in their approaches.