***NON-POLITICAL COVID-19 Discussion Thread***

[JakeF]

A couple of reminders...

Originally Posted by Bwana

Once again, don't come in this thread with some kind of political agenda, or you will be shown the door. If you want to go that route, there is a thread about this in DC.

Originally Posted by Dartgod

People, there is a lot of good information in this thread, let's try to keep the petty bickering to a minimum.

We all have varying opinions about the impact of this, the numbers, etc. We will all never agree with each other. But we can all keep it civil.

Thanks!

Click here for the original OP:

Spoiler!

Apparently the CoronaVirus can survive on a inanimate objects, such as door knobs, for 9 days.

California coronavirus case could be first spread within U.S. community, CDC says
By SOUMYA KARLAMANGLA, JACLYN COSGROVE
FEB. 26, 2020 8:04 PM

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention is investigating what could be the first case of novel coronavirus in the United States involving a patient in California who neither recently traveled out of the country nor was in contact with someone who did.

“At this time, the patient’s exposure is unknown. It’s possible this could be an instance of community spread of COVID-19, which would be the first time this has happened in the United States,” the CDC said in a statement. “Community spread means spread of an illness for which the source of infection is unknown. It’s also possible, however, that the patient may have been exposed to a returned traveler who was infected.”

The individual is a resident of Solano County and is receiving medical care in Sacramento County, according to the state Department of Public Health.

The CDC said the “case was detected through the U.S. public health system — picked up by astute clinicians.”

Officials at UC Davis Medical Center expanded on what the federal agency might have meant by that in an email sent Wednesday, as reported by the Davis Enterprise newspaper.

The patient arrived at UC Davis Medical Center from another hospital Feb. 19 and “had already been intubated, was on a ventilator, and given droplet protection orders because of an undiagnosed and suspected viral condition,” according to an email sent by UC Davis officials that was obtained by the Davis Enterprise.

The staff at UC Davis requested COVID-19 testing by the CDC, but because the patient didn’t fit the CDC’s existing criteria for the virus, a test wasn’t immediately administered, according to the email. The CDC then ordered the test Sunday, and results were announced Wednesday. Hospital administrators reportedly said in the email that despite these issues, there has been minimal exposure at the hospital because of safety protocols they have in place.

A UC Davis Health spokesperson declined Wednesday evening to share the email with The Times.

Since Feb. 2, more than 8,400 returning travelers from China have entered California, according to the state health department. They have been advised to self-quarantine for 14 days and limit interactions with others as much as possible, officials said.

“This is a new virus, and while we are still learning about it, there is a lot we already know,” Dr. Sonia Angell, director of the California Department of Public Health, said in a statement. “We have been anticipating the potential for such a case in the U.S., and given our close familial, social and business relationships with China, it is not unexpected that the first case in the U.S. would be in California.”

It is not clear how the person became infected, but public health workers could not identify any contacts with people who had traveled to China or other areas where the virus is widespread. That raises concern that the virus is spreading in the United States, creating a challenge for public health officials, experts say.

“It’s the first signal that we could be having silent transmission in the community,” said Lawrence Gostin, director of the World Health Organization Collaborating Center on National and Global Health Law. “It probably means there are many more cases out there, and it probably means this individual has infected others, and now it’s a race to try to find out who that person has infected.”

On Tuesday, the CDC offered its most serious warning to date that the United States should expect and prepare for the coronavirus to become a more widespread health issue.

“Ultimately, we expect we will see coronavirus spread in this country,” said Nancy Messonnier, director of the CDC’s National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases. “It’s not so much a question of if, but a question of when.”

According to the CDC’s latest count Wednesday morning, 59 U.S. residents have tested positive for the new strain of coronavirus — 42 of whom are repatriated citizens from a Diamond Princess cruise. That number has grown by two since Messonnier’s last count Tuesday, although the CDC was not immediately available to offer details on the additional cases.

More than 82,000 cases of coronavirus have been reported globally, and more than 2,700 people have died, with the majority in mainland China, the epicenter of the outbreak.

But public health leaders have repeatedly reminded residents that the health risk from the novel coronavirus to the general public remains low.

“While COVID-19 has a high transmission rate, it has a low mortality rate,” the state Department of Public Health said in a statement Wednesday. “From the international data we have, of those who have tested positive for COVID-19, approximately 80% do not exhibit symptoms that would require hospitalization. There have been no confirmed deaths related to COVID-19 in the United States to date.”

CDC officials have also warned that although the virus is likely to spread in U.S. communities, the flu still poses a greater risk.

Gostin said the news of potential silent transmission does not eliminate the possibility of containing the virus in the U.S. and preventing an outbreak.

“There are few enough cases that we should at least try,” he said. “Most of us are not optimistic that that will be successful, but we’re still in the position to try.”

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by MahomesMagic

Doctors and safety monitors carefully review the details of each case

Sure they do.

They're probably no el gato malo, that's for sure.

[MahomesMagic]

Originally Posted by Bearcat

They're probably no el gato malo, that's for sure.

Until we see public information or reports on these "reviews" by the CDC or FDA it's a question of faith.

Keep in mind this is the same CDC that was going around saying 99% effective when their own hospital surveillance numbers said otherwise in May.

This is the same CDC that decided to just stop tracking breakthrough cases right when Delta was beginning to roll through the US.

We learned only through Bloomberg that the "rare" breakthrough cases were well over 100,000 and those numbers were hidden by the CDC too.

Don't get me started on the FDA. The last ten years have not been pretty.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by MahomesMagic

Until we see public information or reports on these "reviews" by the CDC or FDA it's a question of faith.

Keep in mind this is the same CDC that was going around saying 99% effective when their own hospital surveillance numbers said otherwise in May.

This is the same CDC that decided to just stop tracking breakthrough cases right when Delta was beginning to roll through the US.

We learned only through Bloomberg that the "rare" breakthrough cases were well over 100,000 and those numbers were hidden by the CDC too.

Don't get me started on the FDA. The last ten years has not been pretty.

While I do think there are more breakthroughs than we thought, wouldn't 100k stand about what you'd expect when that many have been vaccinated?

[MahomesMagic]

Originally Posted by O.city

While I do think there are more breakthroughs than we thought, wouldn't 100k stand about what you'd expect when that many have been vaccinated?

Not when Rochelle Walesky said if you get vaccinated you can't transmit Covid.

Not when Walensky and Fauci said breakthroughs were "rare".

100,000+ is not rare.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by MahomesMagic

Not when Rochelle Walesky said if you get vaccinated you can't transmit Covid.

Not when Walensky and Fauci said breakthroughs were "rare".

100,000+ is not rare.

100k when the denominator is 180 million is pretty rare, I'd think?

The studies on vaccinated infections show that viral loads drop substantially, very quickly. The singapore study showed that the likelihood of spread from a vaccinated individual is pretty minimal.

Which you would also have to remember that you can't transmit if you aren't infected, so that would help the vaccinated individuals.

[MahomesMagic]

Originally Posted by O.city

100k when the denominator is 180 million is pretty rare, I'd think?

The studies on vaccinated infections show that viral loads drop substantially, very quickly. The singapore study showed that the likelihood of spread from a vaccinated individual is pretty minimal.

Which you would also have to remember that you can't transmit if you aren't infected, so that would help the vaccinated individuals.

Well, we don't do that for unvaccinated, do we?!

And no, the game has changed. You can't defend these vaccines as effective at stopping infections. They are not.

[SupDock]

Originally Posted by MahomesMagic

Not when Rochelle Walesky said if you get vaccinated you can't transmit Covid.

Not when Walensky and Fauci said breakthroughs were "rare".

100,000+ is not rare.

100,000/167,000,000 is .000598

[MahomesMagic]

Originally Posted by SupDock

100,000/167,000,000 is .000598

Sure, if you like.

That is kind of dishonest, IMO.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by MahomesMagic

Well, we don't do that for unvaccinated, do we?!

And no, the game has changed. You can't defend these vaccines as effective at stopping infections. They are not.

They are. I understand you don't believe they do, but they do. Not to the extent they did with alpha or previous variants, but it's still doing well with that, added to the keeping people out of the hospital.

[MahomesMagic]

Originally Posted by O.city

They are. I understand you don't believe they do, but they do. Not to the extent they did with alpha or previous variants, but it's still doing well with that, added to the keeping people out of the hospital.

These are dead for stopping infections.

They do show a few months of lower hospitalizations/deaths (mostly in over 50) but then it looks like they drop off even for those.


Read Eric Topol, he is one of your Pharma cheerleaders and he is seeing this.

Too Many People Are Dying Right Now “It’s hard to look at these indicators and feel at all optimistic,” explains scientist Eric Topol.

....What I just can’t understand is why all three things are all moving up together so rapidly. Given everything we’ve seen in other countries and everything we think we know about the vaccines, even if cases rose dramatically, we’d expect much lower rates of hospitalization and death. But we’re not.
It’s like we didn’t have vaccines. Or worse. I was just putting this talk together and I made the same observation. I’m looking at the four waves, and, as you know, in the monster wave, we got to 250,000 cases per day. And at that time we had 120,000 plus hospitalizations [per day]. About half. What’s amazing is, we’re at about 120,000 cases now, and we’re over 60,000 hospitalizations.

It’s the same ratio.
Yeah. So when I look at that, I say, what happened to the vaccines?

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021...right-now.html

[O.city]

Originally Posted by MahomesMagic

These are dead for stopping infections.

They do show a few months of lower hospitalizations/deaths (mostly in over 50) but then it looks like they drop off even for those.


Read Eric Topol, he is one of your Pharma cheerleaders and he is seeing this.

Too Many People Are Dying Right Now “It’s hard to look at these indicators and feel at all optimistic,” explains scientist Eric Topol.

....What I just can’t understand is why all three things are all moving up together so rapidly. Given everything we’ve seen in other countries and everything we think we know about the vaccines, even if cases rose dramatically, we’d expect much lower rates of hospitalization and death. But we’re not.
It’s like we didn’t have vaccines. Or worse. I was just putting this talk together and I made the same observation. I’m looking at the four waves, and, as you know, in the monster wave, we got to 250,000 cases per day. And at that time we had 120,000 plus hospitalizations [per day]. About half. What’s amazing is, we’re at about 120,000 cases now, and we’re over 60,000 hospitalizations.

It’s the same ratio.
Yeah. So when I look at that, I say, what happened to the vaccines?

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021...right-now.html

Pharma cheerleaders. Thats funny.

I don't need to cheerlead this or that. I've read the studies. He's been a bit fear mongering all thru the whole thing, so I'm not shocked he's still at it.

Looking at the Florida data, it's pretty obvious that the vaccines are doing what they're designed to do, no?

[NotDonger]

For those interested in breakthrough numbers:

https://www.kff.org/policy-watch/cov...om-the-states/

and

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-1...ugh-cases.html

Breakthrough hospitalizations = .0045%

Breakthrough deaths = .0009%

[MahomesMagic]

Originally Posted by O.city

Pharma cheerleaders. Thats funny.

I don't need to cheerlead this or that. I've read the studies. He's been a bit fear mongering all thru the whole thing, so I'm not shocked he's still at it.

Looking at the Florida data, it's pretty obvious that the vaccines are doing what they're designed to do, no?

To be honest, I haven't looked at Florida much.

My understanding is that they have a high percentage of high risk vaccinated and are not doing much better than last summer when they had zero vaccines.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by MahomesMagic

To be honest, I haven't looked at Florida much.

My understanding is that they have a high percentage of high risk vaccinated and are not doing much better than last summer when they had zero vaccines.

I believe they have about 65/70 % of the high risk vaccinated.

Which as we've seen with this variant, probably isn't near high enough. 30-50 year olds hospitalization numbers are about double/triple what they were in their last peak.

[MahomesMagic]

Originally Posted by O.city

I believe they have about 65/70 % of the high risk vaccinated.

Which as we've seen with this variant, probably isn't near high enough. 30-50 year olds hospitalization numbers are about double/triple what they were in their last peak.

What makes this even worse is Florida has been open and growing population immunity for a whole year since last Summer.

Something is not adding up here.