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Old 07-24-2021, 11:33 AM  
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*** 2021 Chiefs Training Camp MEGATHREAD ***
Posting this as a repository for random training camp content. Glad to see Andy moving around today without the cane.
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Old 08-11-2021, 08:59 AM   #2776
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This is wildly optimistic
Why is that?
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Old 08-11-2021, 09:24 AM   #2777
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Why is that?
Comparing an offensive line that has never played a game together before and has 3 rookies to the greatest line ever constructed is wildly optimistic. It's like the people calling Trey Lance "Patrick Mahomes 2.0".

I think in time they'll be really good to great but comparing them to that line is too much.
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Old 08-11-2021, 09:25 AM   #2778
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Why is that?
The only part that was optimistic was the OL comparison.

I think this OL will be great if not elite, but that 2003-ish OL had 2 HOFers and Brian Waters who is 26th on Pro Football Reference’s HOF Monitor (so we had 2 top 30 All Time Guards). Roaf is also listed as the 4th tackle on the list.

This OL can absolutely be better at C and RT than those teams. Thuney could be in the Waters-Shields conversation someday.

Way too early to mention Brown with Roaf. Maybe someday, but not yet.

I love what we’ve seen from Smith but let’s see it on Gameday too before we get too excited.
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Old 08-11-2021, 09:26 AM   #2779
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The rest of the comparison was correct if not even a little modest.
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Old 08-11-2021, 09:31 AM   #2780
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Old 08-11-2021, 09:36 AM   #2781
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Really?.
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Originally Posted by Marcellus View Post
Why is that?
I'm talking about this specifically:

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Originally Posted by Chris Meck View Post
Imagine the Vermeil era offensive line... That's essentially what we're looking at the next couple of years.
Those Chiefs OLs from 2002-2005 were possibly the best of all-time. Even if every guy on this new line played up to his full potential and they worked together like a cohesive unit (which isn't guaranteed), they still probably wouldn't be a match for those offensive lines. We had two HoFs on the same unit.

Also a little bit this:

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Originally Posted by Chris Meck View Post
along with an at WORST middle of the pack defense.
I'd agree that we'll likely be middle of the pack, but I could see scenarios in which our defense is more in the 20-23 range.
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Old 08-11-2021, 09:40 AM   #2782
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Originally Posted by -King- View Post
Comparing an offensive line that has never played a game together before and has 3 rookies to the greatest line ever constructed is wildly optimistic. It's like the people calling Trey Lance "Patrick Mahomes 2.0".

I think in time they'll be really good to great but comparing them to that line is too much.
Ah Ok. Yea maybe, they have the potential to be close. I think that OL had 2 HOF players so yea.
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Old 08-11-2021, 09:42 AM   #2783
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20-23 range?

This defense was 11th last year and they finally have speed and athleticism at LB. Not to mention the addition of Jarran Reed, and Chris Jones looking like a DPOY candidate.
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Old 08-11-2021, 09:44 AM   #2784
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WTF is happening with Gay? Haven’t heard a peep. Hasnt it been 10 days?
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Old 08-11-2021, 09:45 AM   #2785
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WTF is happening with Gay? Haven’t heard a peep. Hasnt it been 10 days?
No way it’s already been 10 days, but he was back on the field yesterday although I don’t think he was practicing.
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Old 08-11-2021, 09:51 AM   #2786
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20-23 range?

This defense was 11th last year and they finally have speed and athleticism at LB. Not to mention the addition of Jarran Reed, and Chris Jones looking like a DPOY candidate.
Depends on what metric you’re looking at.

We’ll be a top 10 scoring defense. Likely top 10-12 in passing yards. Run defense will be worse than pass defense most likely.

Wouldn’t shock me if our total yards allowed was misleading due to giving up a bunch of garbage yards.
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Old 08-11-2021, 10:15 AM   #2787
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Originally Posted by ThaVirus View Post
I'm talking about this specifically:



Those Chiefs OLs from 2002-2005 were possibly the best of all-time. Even if every guy on this new line played up to his full potential and they worked together like a cohesive unit (which isn't guaranteed), they still probably wouldn't be a match for those offensive lines. We had two HoFs on the same unit.

Also a little bit this:



I'd agree that we'll likely be middle of the pack, but I could see scenarios in which our defense is more in the 20-23 range.
Sure. I'd also say that that line HAD to be that good individually, because all of the skill position talent was pedestrian, Holmes included. Just look at what his previous stats were before playing behind Roaf, Waters, Shields, and Wiegmann. Holmes was not fast, nor powerful, nor particularly elusive. He just got to run behind Roaf and company.

And I think Roaf is the best OT I ever saw, hands down. Shields might well be the best OG I ever saw too.

Situationally speaking, I think it's optimistic to think that this line may well play as equal to that one. But not wildly so. The skill position talent is so different that we'll never really be able to compare it. Mahomes may well make Brown, Thuney, and company look the equals of Roaf and Shields whether they're that good or not.

as for the defense, the only way that defense is 20-23 range is a ton of injuries to key players. If they remain relatively healthy, it's a borderline top ten unit, in my opinion. And that's assuming that the increase in LB talent is offset by inexperience.

And assuming that Veach hits on 50% of his first round CB reclamation projects. I don't think that's wildly optimistic, I think that's a reasonable expectation.
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Old 08-11-2021, 10:20 AM   #2788
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Situationally speaking, I think it's optimistic to think that this line may well play as equal to that one. But not wildly so.
Stop it.

Those past OLs were top 5 units all-time. We would be ecstatic if this new collection ended up being top 5 this season.
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Old 08-11-2021, 10:25 AM   #2789
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Depends on what metric you’re looking at.

We’ll be a top 10 scoring defense. Likely top 10-12 in passing yards. Run defense will be worse than pass defense most likely.

Wouldn’t shock me if our total yards allowed was misleading due to giving up a bunch of garbage yards.
Barring injury I'd say the biggest impact we're likely to see is at CB. Losing Breeland could hurt. We've got tons of potential there now, but it's a bit worrisome when Charvarious Ward and Rashad Fenton are the most senior members in the group.

Thornhill still isn't ready, which means Sorenson and possibly an UDFA in Keys will see significant playing time.

We've got more depth and talent at LB but neither Gay nor Bolton are proven.

Frank Clark and the depth at DE2 are question marks.

But, yeah, injury would be the biggest issue. If either Chris Jones or Mathieu go down for any extended period, our defense could take a noticeable dip.
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Old 08-11-2021, 10:27 AM   #2790
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WTF is happening with Gay? Haven’t heard a peep. Hasnt it been 10 days?
Concussion protocol.
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