***NON-POLITICAL COVID-19 Discussion Thread***

[JakeF]

A couple of reminders...

Originally Posted by Bwana

Once again, don't come in this thread with some kind of political agenda, or you will be shown the door. If you want to go that route, there is a thread about this in DC.

Originally Posted by Dartgod

People, there is a lot of good information in this thread, let's try to keep the petty bickering to a minimum.

We all have varying opinions about the impact of this, the numbers, etc. We will all never agree with each other. But we can all keep it civil.

Thanks!

Click here for the original OP:

Spoiler!

Apparently the CoronaVirus can survive on a inanimate objects, such as door knobs, for 9 days.

California coronavirus case could be first spread within U.S. community, CDC says
By SOUMYA KARLAMANGLA, JACLYN COSGROVE
FEB. 26, 2020 8:04 PM

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention is investigating what could be the first case of novel coronavirus in the United States involving a patient in California who neither recently traveled out of the country nor was in contact with someone who did.

“At this time, the patient’s exposure is unknown. It’s possible this could be an instance of community spread of COVID-19, which would be the first time this has happened in the United States,” the CDC said in a statement. “Community spread means spread of an illness for which the source of infection is unknown. It’s also possible, however, that the patient may have been exposed to a returned traveler who was infected.”

The individual is a resident of Solano County and is receiving medical care in Sacramento County, according to the state Department of Public Health.

The CDC said the “case was detected through the U.S. public health system — picked up by astute clinicians.”

Officials at UC Davis Medical Center expanded on what the federal agency might have meant by that in an email sent Wednesday, as reported by the Davis Enterprise newspaper.

The patient arrived at UC Davis Medical Center from another hospital Feb. 19 and “had already been intubated, was on a ventilator, and given droplet protection orders because of an undiagnosed and suspected viral condition,” according to an email sent by UC Davis officials that was obtained by the Davis Enterprise.

The staff at UC Davis requested COVID-19 testing by the CDC, but because the patient didn’t fit the CDC’s existing criteria for the virus, a test wasn’t immediately administered, according to the email. The CDC then ordered the test Sunday, and results were announced Wednesday. Hospital administrators reportedly said in the email that despite these issues, there has been minimal exposure at the hospital because of safety protocols they have in place.

A UC Davis Health spokesperson declined Wednesday evening to share the email with The Times.

Since Feb. 2, more than 8,400 returning travelers from China have entered California, according to the state health department. They have been advised to self-quarantine for 14 days and limit interactions with others as much as possible, officials said.

“This is a new virus, and while we are still learning about it, there is a lot we already know,” Dr. Sonia Angell, director of the California Department of Public Health, said in a statement. “We have been anticipating the potential for such a case in the U.S., and given our close familial, social and business relationships with China, it is not unexpected that the first case in the U.S. would be in California.”

It is not clear how the person became infected, but public health workers could not identify any contacts with people who had traveled to China or other areas where the virus is widespread. That raises concern that the virus is spreading in the United States, creating a challenge for public health officials, experts say.

“It’s the first signal that we could be having silent transmission in the community,” said Lawrence Gostin, director of the World Health Organization Collaborating Center on National and Global Health Law. “It probably means there are many more cases out there, and it probably means this individual has infected others, and now it’s a race to try to find out who that person has infected.”

On Tuesday, the CDC offered its most serious warning to date that the United States should expect and prepare for the coronavirus to become a more widespread health issue.

“Ultimately, we expect we will see coronavirus spread in this country,” said Nancy Messonnier, director of the CDC’s National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases. “It’s not so much a question of if, but a question of when.”

According to the CDC’s latest count Wednesday morning, 59 U.S. residents have tested positive for the new strain of coronavirus — 42 of whom are repatriated citizens from a Diamond Princess cruise. That number has grown by two since Messonnier’s last count Tuesday, although the CDC was not immediately available to offer details on the additional cases.

More than 82,000 cases of coronavirus have been reported globally, and more than 2,700 people have died, with the majority in mainland China, the epicenter of the outbreak.

But public health leaders have repeatedly reminded residents that the health risk from the novel coronavirus to the general public remains low.

“While COVID-19 has a high transmission rate, it has a low mortality rate,” the state Department of Public Health said in a statement Wednesday. “From the international data we have, of those who have tested positive for COVID-19, approximately 80% do not exhibit symptoms that would require hospitalization. There have been no confirmed deaths related to COVID-19 in the United States to date.”

CDC officials have also warned that although the virus is likely to spread in U.S. communities, the flu still poses a greater risk.

Gostin said the news of potential silent transmission does not eliminate the possibility of containing the virus in the U.S. and preventing an outbreak.

“There are few enough cases that we should at least try,” he said. “Most of us are not optimistic that that will be successful, but we’re still in the position to try.”

[Chief Roundup]

Originally Posted by jdubya

If one is on government care I can see that happening. If one has been paying for private medical insurance, that is criminal and tyrannical

Why does the way of getting healthcare matter? It should not.
Either way, you are trying to prioritize things in a way against those that are on SS or poor versus those that made a conscious choice.
If you make a choice then there are consequences that come with that choice.

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by jdubya

If one is on government care I can see that happening. If one has been paying for private medical insurance, that is criminal and tyrannical

Is it more or less criminal and tyrannical than everyone who's being denied healthcare right now due to the lack of beds and restrictions on elective surgeries?

[jdubya]

Originally Posted by Bearcat

Is it more or less criminal and tyrannical than everyone who's being denied healthcare right now due to the lack of beds and restrictions on elective surgeries?

For me to answer that with sincerity I would be entering politics and I respectfully will adhere to your request to keep this non political.

[suzzer99]

ICU beds in each state filled *just* w/COVID patients:
Mississippi 59%
Alabama 55.7%
Florida 53.3%
Georgia 53.1%
Texas 49.6%
Arkansas 48.1%
Louisiana 46.8%
Idaho 46.3%
Okla 42.5%
Hawaii 41.9%
N.Carolina 39.9%
Missouri 39.3%
Kentucky 39.3%
Tennessee 36%
-
Lowest: NJ 6.4%
Via HHS

— Steven Dennis (@StevenTDennis) August 28, 2021

The Alabama / Mississippi rivalry continues.

[jdubya]

Originally Posted by Bearcat

Is it more or less criminal and tyrannical than everyone who's being denied healthcare right now due to the lack of beds and restrictions on elective surgeries?

How many are in the ICU right now with COPD many of which were smokers? Lets toss those damn smokers.

How many are in the ICU and cardiac Cath lab with CAD (Coronary Artery Disease) secondary to unhealthy diets and lifestyles? Lets toss those lazy stupid bastards out.

How many are in the trauma center from vehicle accidents recovery from hitting a tree while driving drunk or high on recreational drugs? Toss em

How many are taking up beds because of trauma from drunken assaults at parties or bars? Screw them, they should have known better

Motorcycle accidents? We all know motorcycles are more dangerous than cars....toss em.

Elective surges like hip and knee replacements? Probably because they went through life at an unhealthy weight and got premature arthritis.....screw them.

Cancer patients? Likely secondary to unhealthy diets and smoking and drinking too much anyway.

I think you get my point. Where do you draw the line? Who gets to play God?

[Monticore]

Originally Posted by jdubya

How many are in the ICU right now with COPD many of which were smokers? Lets toss those damn smokers.

How many are in the ICU and cardiac Cath lab with CAD (Coronary Artery Disease) secondary to unhealthy diets and lifestyles? Lets toss those lazy stupid bastards out.

How many are in the trauma center from vehicle accidents recovery from hitting a tree while driving drunk or high on recreational drugs? Toss em

How many are taking up beds because of trauma from drunken assaults at parties or bars? Screw them, they should have known better

Motorcycle accidents? We all know motorcycles are more dangerous than cars....toss em.

Elective surges like hip and knee replacements? Probably because they went through life at an unhealthy weight and got premature arthritis.....screw them.

Cancer patients? Likely secondary to unhealthy diets and smoking and drinking too much anyway.

I think you get my point. Where do you draw the line? Who gets to play God?

You think 40% of ICU beds are now filled with each of these examples not sure you know how percentage work.

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by jdubya

How many are in the ICU right now with COPD many of which were smokers? Lets toss those damn smokers.

How many are in the ICU and cardiac Cath lab with CAD (Coronary Artery Disease) secondary to unhealthy diets and lifestyles? Lets toss those lazy stupid bastards out.

How many are in the trauma center from vehicle accidents recovery from hitting a tree while driving drunk or high on recreational drugs? Toss em

How many are taking up beds because of trauma from drunken assaults at parties or bars? Screw them, they should have known better

Motorcycle accidents? We all know motorcycles are more dangerous than cars....toss em.

Elective surges like hip and knee replacements? Probably because they went through life at an unhealthy weight and got premature arthritis.....screw them.

Cancer patients? Likely secondary to unhealthy diets and smoking and drinking too much anyway.

I think you get my point.

There's no slippery slope right now.

Every hospital in the country pre-Covid took all of those things you mentioned into consideration when looking at number of beds, staffing, equipment, etc.

It's not about being assholes and figuring out who can be kicked to the curb, it's about supply and demand... and there's only one reason demand outweighs supply right now.

Originally Posted by jdubya

Where do you draw the line? Who gets to play God?

Doctors are already playing god.. with zero guidance beyond their best judgment.

End of the day and at 30k feet, it seems like drawing any lines, whatever that means, would be far more beneficial than what's happened the past couple of surges.

I personally don't think that means denying every single unvaccinated patient, but looking at anything beyond the status quo seems prudent.

[Bearcat]

And the sad thing is... out of all of those examples, there's probably people in each group who have been denied a bed or been told to checkout early, etc.

Elective surgeries have already been backlogged for over a year. There was a post about a cancer patient being checked out early because they needed the bed.

It's already happening, so there isn't even a slippery slope of "if unvaccinated people, what about..." ...the 'what about' have been significantly impacted already.

[jdubya]

Originally Posted by Monticore

You think 40% of ICU beds are now filled with each of these examples not sure you know how percentage work.

I was a street medic for almost 30 years and we did rotations in hospitals at times. While I don't know exact percentages I am certain I am close. Aren't you in medical care? It's just a fact of life, people end up in the hospital very often due to poor choices. The folks with COPD overwhelmingly were smokers or folks who worked unhealthy occupations and got lung disease. People with bad hearts and diabetes are commonly folks who didn't lead healthy lifestyles. I am not saying ALL.....I am saying MANY. I am not judging....the majority of us enjoy rich food and some strong drink....some more than others and its OK.....its all about life choices. My point is, if one is going to cut care because they chose not to get a vaccine, then that should open the gates for all others taking up beds due to poor choices.

Pandoras box anyone?

[Monticore]

Originally Posted by jdubya

I was a street medic for almost 30 years and we did rotations in hospitals at times. While I don't know exact percentages I am certain I am close. Aren't you in medical care? It's just a fact of life, people end up in the hospital very often due to poor choices. The folks with COPD overwhelmingly were smokers or folks who worked unhealthy occupations and got lung disease. People with bad hearts and diabetes are commonly folks who didn't lead healthy lifestyles. I am not saying ALL.....I am saying MANY. I am not judging....the majority of us enjoy rich food and some strong drink....some more than others and its OK.....its all about life choices. My point is, if one is going to cut care because they chose not to get a vaccine, then that should open the gates for all others taking up beds due to poor choices.

Pandoras box anyone?

So at one point in its history Mississippi had almost 60% of their ICU beds filled with motorcycle accidents at one time?

[Monticore]

Originally Posted by jdubya

I was a street medic for almost 30 years and we did rotations in hospitals at times. While I don't know exact percentages I am certain I am close. Aren't you in medical care? It's just a fact of life, people end up in the hospital very often due to poor choices. The folks with COPD overwhelmingly were smokers or folks who worked unhealthy occupations and got lung disease. People with bad hearts and diabetes are commonly folks who didn't lead healthy lifestyles. I am not saying ALL.....I am saying MANY. I am not judging....the majority of us enjoy rich food and some strong drink....some more than others and its OK.....its all about life choices. My point is, if one is going to cut care because they chose not to get a vaccine, then that should open the gates for all others taking up beds due to poor choices.

Pandoras box anyone?

I agree most of what we deal with is self induced to some extent , if smokers had an option to take a vaccine that reduce their risk of severe illness and death and be able to continue to smoke I assume most would consider it and I assume medical professionals would be pushing it especially if the medical system wasn’t already built to accommodate them.

[jdubya]

Originally Posted by Monticore

So at one point in its history Mississippi had almost 60% of their ICU beds filled with motorcycle accidents at one time?

We are not in DC where I would expect this response but good Lord man...this is significantly unintelligent. That is what you think I was trying to say? Really?

[jdubya]

Originally Posted by Monticore

I agree most of what we deal with is self induced to some extent , if smokers had an option to take a vaccine that reduce their risk of severe illness and death and be able to continue to smoke I assume most would consider it and I assume medical professionals would be pushing it especially if the medical system wasn’t already built to accommodate them.

This is a cool "what if" that has nothing to do with reality.

If you are a fan of punishing unstable covid patients because they weren't vaccinated, fine.

[Monticore]

Originally Posted by jdubya

This is a cool "what if" that has nothing to do with reality.

If you are a fan of punishing unstable covid patients because they weren't vaccinated, fine.

I don’t agree with doing that but you can still put some of the blame for this situation on them.

[carlos3652]

Originally Posted by Monticore

I don’t agree with doing that but you can still put some of the blame for this situation on them.

The blame game has multiple layers.

Hospitals trusted to budget / plan based on the data they were provided. In March they were told vaccinated people would not get sick or transmit the virus. They were also basing it on the RO of 2.5 / 4 that the original strain / alpha had.

Here comes delta and screwed everyone.

Vaccines don’t stop transmission (thankfully they curve serious illness)
R0 of 8 comes along sweeping up what didn’t get sick in the past 12 months
Staffing Burnt out
Staffing Fired due to mandates

The influx is the same as it was last summer, they had a backlog of people that were put on a waiting list for selective surgery.

It’s a combination of things - there is plenty of blame to go around.

Science changes, data changes… and we acted like the vaccines would be a magical bullet. It was sold that way all the way to the President (not political as it didn’t matter who the prez was) and that messaging killed us.