Chiefs Cover 2 - Page 2

Bl00dyBizkitz · 10-11-2021, 09:20 AM

I find it hard to believe that this is our offenses kryptonite. Do we really not have an answer for it? Why is our offensive playcalling so vanilla?

It's not that I'm impatient for the deep ball, but plenty of other teams seem to find ways to punish Cover 2 and force them to play up further, and we're the only team that somehow can't.

I hardly see us use motion to our advantage like we used to. I hardly see any sort of creative playcalling unless it's some dumb trick play or shovel pass at the goal line.

You'd think running the ball into Cover 2 would gash defenses, but apparently we ****ing suck at that too. And this is all we're gonna see the rest of the season. Deep Cover 2, stop the big play, hope our offense makes mistakes and gets off the field. And so far, it's working. Do we seriously not have any answers for this?

rabblerouser · 10-11-2021, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

That is another situation in our perfect storm. Sucks because he shouldn't be fired. He does genuinely deserve an opportunity somewhere and that's why the Chiefs are reluctant to get rid of him. But EB is not an innovator and that's what we need in the room right now. Promote Kafka and bring in an assistant coach or two who is going to study the hell out of college and pro offenses to find new wrinkles. Hell, bring in a veteran special consultant.

What opportunity DOES he deserve, really?

With his spotty personal background and not being an innovator as you stated, he's probably really topped out his potential, and THAT'S why he didn't get an offer.

It's possible he's just like Nagy and Pedersen, and Pedersen only held on in Philly as long as he did because he caught lightning in a bottle with Big Dick Nick when they won the SB. It's even possible that he's not as good as those guys, because being on a staff with Andy Reid and Mike Kafka while Patrick Mahomes is the starting QB can probably cover up an awful lot of deficiencies for awhile. But in the NFL, your deficiencies will always get exposed eventually.

rabblerouser · 10-11-2021, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hammock Parties

No. Because Cover 2 is dropping more players into coverage.

It takes longer for routes to develop against Cover 2.

Against other defenses if there is pressure someone may be open a lot quicker.

Traditionally, there's usually space in the seams for TEs to work the middle because the safeties are in that 2 shell.

You'd think Reid and EB would've tried to exploit that more with Kelce...

**dirk digler** · 10-11-2021, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hammock Parties

Did you miss the games where we ran for 186 and 200 yards?

Teams don't fear our run game and definitely don't fear CEH. I really wish KHunt never did what he did and we would have probably won 2 SB's with him and you wouldn't see defenses playing like they are now.

This offense needs to find a very good RB and upgrade the WR position a little next year.

DJ's left nut · 10-11-2021, 01:31 PM

It's not scheme - it's execution. Again.

I can think of at least 17 points that came off the board yesterday for KC strictly because of piss-poor execution.

Teams are making the Chiefs work harder for longer to score. And if the Chiefs execute, they'll still score. But by making it take 11-12 plays instead of 3-5, the Chiefs have to execute more often at an equally high level.

Too often they haven't been able to. I think there's some SB hangover here and I think they may be reading some press clippings.

You have to hope this ass-kicking focuses them back in.

If Cover 2 was some miracle cure, it wouldn't have fallen out of favor a decade or more ago. It's a fine philosophy but nothing that hasn't been exploited a hundred times over. And yes, the Chiefs and Reid know how to exploit it.

They're just not executing at a high level.

Hammock Parties · 10-11-2021, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rabblerouser

Traditionally, there's usually space in the seams for TEs to work the middle because the safeties are in that 2 shell.

You'd think Reid and EB would've tried to exploit that more with Kelce...

Just saw a break down where the Bills came out in Cover 2 and one of the safeties shifted down to take away the middle of the field.

Mahomes needed one more second in the pocket to let one rip to take advantage of the safety coming down, but pressure got there.

The Bills did an amazing job on defense.

Hoover · 10-11-2021, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bl00dyBizkitz

I find it hard to believe that this is our offenses kryptonite. Do we really not have an answer for it? Why is our offensive playcalling so vanilla?

It's not that I'm impatient for the deep ball, but plenty of other teams seem to find ways to punish Cover 2 and force them to play up further, and we're the only team that somehow can't.

I hardly see us use motion to our advantage like we used to. I hardly see any sort of creative playcalling unless it's some dumb trick play or shovel pass at the goal line.

You'd think running the ball into Cover 2 would gash defenses, but apparently we ****ing suck at that too. And this is all we're gonna see the rest of the season. Deep Cover 2, stop the big play, hope our offense makes mistakes and gets off the field. And so far, it's working. Do we seriously not have any answers for this?

1. I agree.

2. I think there are a number of little factors impacting this. Like, the need for EB to be involved in play calling. Or the need to feed the ball to our first round running back. Or our entirely new and young offensive line. Or demanding that Patrick have better pocket discipline. Or the fact that there are just more distractions this year vis the year we were focused on winning a championship and the repeat year where covid shut everything down.

3. I also think Andy and co believe we are a playoff team, so why try to be perfect in the first part of the season. I think they are saving plenty for games that really matter.

Gravedigger · 10-11-2021, 01:44 PM

I don't think it's our Kryptonite, but I do think that many defenses understood that a vast amount of plays come from the deep threat that Tyreek, Mecole, and Sammy provided, allowing Travis and others to work underneath. You know how they say that when you get down and goal to go that it gets harder to score if you can't run the football, it's because you're cutting off part of the field and limiting the options the offense has to score. Those two high safeties are the back of the endzone and they reduce the amount of plays Mahomes can run confidently. This will force Mahomes to change plays at the lines more effectively, but he has to call the right audible to punish the defense, and in that there's a disconnect between what Andy and EB are providing Mahomes, or if he has those audibles and knows the play, he's not making the right decisions in switching his reads. Or the defense has taken away the deep threat and know the audibles that Mahomes relies on most frequently so they can easily guess between the safeties and the Dline on where he's most likely going with the ball. They've gotta switch it up and keep them guessing, but it also falls to the OLine to give Mahomes the time, it relies on the receivers to keep moving in their zones to create separation and hope he flushed out to your side of the field, alot of variables.

BryanBusby · 10-11-2021, 01:48 PM

Once the Offense settles in when a Leslie Frazier does this and can comfortably precision pass a 2 deep look to death by a thousand Alex Smith throws, this era will be over. Running over every one would be great but we can't seem to do it reliably.

Well, more like Brady and less like Alex Smith. The short passes should mean something.

Need a lot more from the receivers in this area.

Hammock Parties · 10-11-2021, 01:50 PM

A large part of the problem was the Chiefs trailing for so much last night that they couldn't audible into runs because they were behind.

That third and two run that got ****ed really screwed us, because BUF immediately scored after and then we kinda had to abandon the run.

The Chiefs are much better when they can audible into runs when they get those looks, and are effective running, and can keep doing that. That's how we squashed Philly. We basically told them to go **** themselves with their two high and kept smashing the run.

That was the goal of the offseason - use the new OL to counter that look. Because as Sharpe keeps saying, you have to run them out of that look.

The defense the last two years has not really put the offense in the positions it's getting into now.

Pasta Little Brioni · 10-11-2021, 02:16 PM

The only thing stopping this offense is our own execution. Period. Cover 2 is a shitty outdated coverage

SupDock · 10-11-2021, 02:22 PM

I’m not sure that Mahomes likes dink and dunk plays, which you need to overcome Cover 2 if you can’t establish the run.

Combine that with us playing from behind because our defense is shit and wanting big plays, and you have a bad combination.

We also have receivers that just can’t get open and have been dropping balls.

We are ending up with a lot of 3rd and long as well.

Hammock Parties · 10-11-2021, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SupDock

I’m not sure that Mahomes likes dink and dunk plays, which you need to overcome Cover 2 if you can’t establish the run.

This is garbage.

Watch the second half of the 2019 season.

MahomesMagic · 10-11-2021, 02:26 PM

The issue against Buffalo is they kept the safeties deep the same as AFC Championship game but squeezed our passing options for the RPO.

Nice counter and told Edmunds to stop hunting the RB but just stay still.

We then had no counter to that but idiotic attacks to the side of the field.

Middle of the field still wide open against Buffalo...we just needed to get a few yards deeper.

SupDock · 10-11-2021, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hammock Parties

This is garbage.

Watch the second half of the 2019 season.

I may be wrong, but wasn’t that after his knee injury when he was less mobile?

Hammock Parties · 10-11-2021, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SupDock

I may be wrong, but wasn’t that after his knee injury when he was less mobile?

Yes. And it forced him to stay in the pocket and go through his reads more mechanically. He was the most robotic he's ever been during that time period, and he absolutely CARVED defenses up underneath.

He still ran, but much more selectively.

Last night Patrick had clean pockets at times and was throwing off platform anyway.

He has waffled this year between staying in the pocket and just running out for no reason again. For some reason this bad habit keeps coming back.

10-11-2021, 09:20 AM
Bl00dyBizkitz Veteran Join Date: Nov 2013 Casino cash: $-791581	Cover 2 I find it hard to believe that this is our offenses kryptonite. Do we really not have an answer for it? Why is our offensive playcalling so vanilla? It's not that I'm impatient for the deep ball, but plenty of other teams seem to find ways to punish Cover 2 and force them to play up further, and we're the only team that somehow can't. I hardly see us use motion to our advantage like we used to. I hardly see any sort of creative playcalling unless it's some dumb trick play or shovel pass at the goal line. You'd think running the ball into Cover 2 would gash defenses, but apparently we ****ing suck at that too. And this is all we're gonna see the rest of the season. Deep Cover 2, stop the big play, hope our offense makes mistakes and gets off the field. And so far, it's working. Do we seriously not have any answers for this?
Posts: 4,336

10-11-2021, 01:31 PM	#19
DJ's left nut Sauntering Vaguely Downwards Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Columbia, Mo Casino cash: $-690901	It's not scheme - it's execution. Again. I can think of at least 17 points that came off the board yesterday for KC strictly because of piss-poor execution. Teams are making the Chiefs work harder for longer to score. And if the Chiefs execute, they'll still score. But by making it take 11-12 plays instead of 3-5, the Chiefs have to execute more often at an equally high level. Too often they haven't been able to. I think there's some SB hangover here and I think they may be reading some press clippings. You have to hope this ass-kicking focuses them back in. If Cover 2 was some miracle cure, it wouldn't have fallen out of favor a decade or more ago. It's a fine philosophy but nothing that hasn't been exploited a hundred times over. And yes, the Chiefs and Reid know how to exploit it. They're just not executing at a high level. __________________ "If there's a god, he's laughing at us.....and our football team..." "When you look at something through rose colored glasses, all the red flags just look like flags."
Posts: 66,764

10-11-2021, 01:44 PM	#22
Gravedigger Plays to win the game! Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Lees Summit Casino cash: $6493101	I don't think it's our Kryptonite, but I do think that many defenses understood that a vast amount of plays come from the deep threat that Tyreek, Mecole, and Sammy provided, allowing Travis and others to work underneath. You know how they say that when you get down and goal to go that it gets harder to score if you can't run the football, it's because you're cutting off part of the field and limiting the options the offense has to score. Those two high safeties are the back of the endzone and they reduce the amount of plays Mahomes can run confidently. This will force Mahomes to change plays at the lines more effectively, but he has to call the right audible to punish the defense, and in that there's a disconnect between what Andy and EB are providing Mahomes, or if he has those audibles and knows the play, he's not making the right decisions in switching his reads. Or the defense has taken away the deep threat and know the audibles that Mahomes relies on most frequently so they can easily guess between the safeties and the Dline on where he's most likely going with the ball. They've gotta switch it up and keep them guessing, but it also falls to the OLine to give Mahomes the time, it relies on the receivers to keep moving in their zones to create separation and hope he flushed out to your side of the field, alot of variables.
Posts: 7,821

10-11-2021, 01:48 PM	#23
BryanBusby In Search of a Life Join Date: Mar 2006 Casino cash: $3169900 VARSITY	Once the Offense settles in when a Leslie Frazier does this and can comfortably precision pass a 2 deep look to death by a thousand Alex Smith throws, this era will be over. Running over every one would be great but we can't seem to do it reliably. Well, more like Brady and less like Alex Smith. The short passes should mean something. Need a lot more from the receivers in this area.
Posts: 22,630

10-11-2021, 01:50 PM	#24
Hammock Parties I'll be back. Join Date: Nov 2002 Casino cash: $970478	A large part of the problem was the Chiefs trailing for so much last night that they couldn't audible into runs because they were behind. That third and two run that got **ed really screwed us, because BUF immediately scored after and then we kinda had to abandon the run. The Chiefs are much better when they can audible into runs when they get those looks, and are effective running, and can keep doing that. That's how we squashed Philly. We basically told them to go ** themselves with their two high and kept smashing the run. That was the goal of the offseason - use the new OL to counter that look. Because as Sharpe keeps saying, you have to run them out of that look. The defense the last two years has not really put the offense in the positions it's getting into now. __________________ Chiefs game films
Posts: 296,860

10-11-2021, 02:16 PM	#25
Pasta Little Brioni Consuming CP souls Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: U.S.A. Casino cash: $338880	The only thing stopping this offense is our own execution. Period. Cover 2 is a shitty outdated coverage __________________ **Official TFWdemB Trivia Commisioner**
Posts: 72,938

10-11-2021, 02:22 PM	#26
SupDock MVP Join Date: Oct 2017 Casino cash: $-79600	I’m not sure that Mahomes likes dink and dunk plays, which you need to overcome Cover 2 if you can’t establish the run. Combine that with us playing from behind because our defense is shit and wanting big plays, and you have a bad combination. We also have receivers that just can’t get open and have been dropping balls. We are ending up with a lot of 3rd and long as well.
Posts: 7,388

10-11-2021, 02:26 PM	#28
MahomesMagic Generational Player Join Date: May 2017 Location: Honolulu Casino cash: $500400	The issue against Buffalo is they kept the safeties deep the same as AFC Championship game but squeezed our passing options for the RPO. Nice counter and told Edmunds to stop hunting the RB but just stay still. We then had no counter to that but idiotic attacks to the side of the field. Middle of the field still wide open against Buffalo...we just needed to get a few yards deeper.
Posts: 9,979	1 0