Chiefs We saw the formula for this offense going forward against the Giants... - Page 14

**petegz28** · 09:46 PM

As much as some don't want to admit or accept it, the fact is that the high-flying offense we have seen the last few years is gone for the moment. But we can change that if we force teams to defend something else.

1. Run the ball more. DW and Gore should be active in running and catching out of the backfield. Gore has patients and vision that CEH does not.

2. Take the shorter passes first and check down to the deeper pass. Quit waiting to see if someone deep will open up. Dink-dunk.

3. Patience. We ran the ball one drive for almost the entire drive and scored a TD. Next drive we never ran the ball once and punted.

The simple fact is teams are daring us to run the ball and play the short game betting that we either won't stick with it or will **** ourselves. If we quit turning over the ball the rest we can do.

Once we win a few games running the ball and playing ball control then teams will have no choice to start bringing more players down into the box and then we can go back to tearing shit up in the air.

Until then, 6 or 7 in the box should be run or dink-dunk with some PA pass. The RPO stuff might have to take a bit of a backseat for a bit.

MahomesMagic · 11-02-2021, 09:40 AM

It must be hard for Andy Reid because he was the genius that evolved the WCO to make it a hybrid with college spread.

But the NFL defenses are all moving in a direction that counters this.

We need to go back to the past and use tighter formations, quick throws that get the WR's YAC, and go old school West Coast offense to counter attack.

Fangio's disciples are all around the NFL and it is all about simple. DL beats up on guys in front, secondary plays back and is protecting deep. Make offenses execute down the field. Fangio's disciples took the Fangio scheme and simplified it. No blitzes unless they get home in 1.5 seconds.

ToxSocks · 11-02-2021, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirk digler

yep. Reid used to be called the master of the screen game, what happened to that? Is Mahomes incapable of executing the screen game?

Screens are thought to be ineffective against zone coverages as the defenders are almost always facing the LoS.

Screens are man coverage beaters and killers against the right blitzes. And we pretty much never face man coverage and never see blitzes.

**dirk digler** · 11-02-2021, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Detoxing

Screens are thought to be ineffective against zone coverages as the defenders are almost always facing the LoS.

Screens are man coverage beaters and killers against the right blitzes. And we pretty much never face man coverage and never see blitzes.

makes sense. I was thinking since the safeties are so far back that would be a good time to use it.

Chris Meck · 11-02-2021, 10:04 AM

Look;

The Gore drive was excellent. That kind of thing running is available against 2 deep zones if you have a back that can exploit it.

The other two really good drives (the one with the pick and the one TD to Hill) are also good examples of what you do against 2 deep safety defenses.

You mix and match those two approaches, eliminate turnovers, and you win games big.

Eventually you force teams to abandon the 2 deep look, and you get your one on one shots downfield.

But until then, this is what people will do every single week forever, or until Mahomes and Reid show they can beat it.

It's pretty simple, really.

Power running+ quick passing+ Reid's patented jet sweep/pitch-pass sweep stuff. Slants. little quick crosses in the middle. Make them pay. don't fumble, don't throw INT's. Eat them alive.

There is no other way to beat that defense. That's how you do it. You have to be disciplined. It's irritating, it's frustrating, and it plays on denying you want you WANT to do. Are you mature enough to beat it?

wachashi · 11-02-2021, 10:09 AM

We had a lot of success exploiting the edges of the Giants defense with our speed. The sweeps picked up 10 yards a clip it seemed like. We're seeing safeties play so far back they can't help defend sweeps without first conceding yards.

Only problem is that our wide receivers have to know they can't hold onto the defender as they block when they're literally two feet from an official (Pringle).

MahomesMagic · 11-02-2021, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

Look;

The Gore drive was excellent. That kind of thing running is available against 2 deep zones if you have a back that can exploit it.

The other two really good drives (the one with the pick and the one TD to Hill) are also good examples of what you do against 2 deep safety defenses.

You mix and match those two approaches, eliminate turnovers, and you win games big.

Eventually you force teams to abandon the 2 deep look, and you get your one on one shots downfield.

But until then, this is what people will do every single week forever, or until Mahomes and Reid show they can beat it.

It's pretty simple, really.

Power running+ quick passing+ Reid's patented jet sweep/pitch-pass sweep stuff. Slants. little quick crosses in the middle. Make them pay. don't fumble, don't throw INT's. Eat them alive.

There is no other way to beat that defense. That's how you do it. You have to be disciplined. It's irritating, it's frustrating, and it plays on denying you want you WANT to do. Are you mature enough to beat it?

Get the ball into a WR's hands fast and block for him. Take 7-8 yards and be happy.

RetiredSeniorChief · 11-02-2021, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hammock Parties

I think the Chiefs were very creative last night.

So creative, in fact, they would have scored 34 points.

Until the players failed to execute.

Woulda coulda shoulda. Really, at what point during last night's game were they even close to scoring that many points? The one interception they got right back and scored on the second drive, the second TD was fueled by the run game, Kelce fumbled away a potential opportunity. After that there was a whole lotta of meh. Drive Results: Int, TD, Punt, Punt, TD, Punt, Punt, Fumble, FG, FG. End of Game. Not even close to 34 points.

jd1020 · 11-02-2021, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MahomesMagic

Get the ball into a WR's hands fast and block for him. Take 7-8 yards and be happy.

Use the RBs in the passing game more. Williams was wide the **** open last night all night by just leaking out of the backfield and he had 10.2 YPC.

Hammock Parties · 11-02-2021, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RetiredSeniorChief

Woulda coulda shoulda. Really, at what point during last night's game were they even close to scoring that many points?

Well, add 7 if Mahomes throws a better pass on the first drive.

Add at least 3 if Kelce doesn't fumble deep in NYG territory.

Simple.

Chris Meck · 11-02-2021, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MahomesMagic

Get the ball into a WR's hands fast and block for him. Take 7-8 yards and be happy.

Also something we saw in pre-season a little and they talked about doing, but the multiple TE look as well. Where's Noah Gray? That's a mismatch on a LB. Force a safety up to cover that 2nd TE.

That affects what they're doing to Kelce. it affects the over the top shell.

tk13 · 11-02-2021, 10:20 AM

Really that's part of the plan when teams play these soft defenses... if you can make the other team go 10-15 plays, you just increase the odds of a mistake. And that's what teams are banking on right now. It's not a small sample size at this point. We look like a team that is sloppy when we can't rip off a 3 or 4 play drive every once in a while.

Chris Meck · 11-02-2021, 10:24 AM

ALSO

once you prove that you CAN do the short, quick passing game and power running game, be patient and execute and score touchdowns most of the time-

You will force the defenses (and the opposing offenses) into the things they DON'T want to do, because you're killing them in TOP. They'll start blitzing, and they'll start trying to play hero ball on offense because THEY will get desperate to try to score every play because you're not giving them enough opportunities to keep up with you.

It's all a domino effect.

wachashi · 11-02-2021, 10:39 AM

Patrick is energized by the deep ball. His confidence is fueled by the improbable long-bomb throws only he can make. Without them, he's reduced to merely a top-five NFL QB.

Every 30+ yard completion is an Infinity Stone that he adds to his collection. He grows stronger with each one. Teams watch helplessly as 250 yards passing quickly becomes 500. His power accelerates exponentially.

He's got the Infinity Gauntlet but teams aren't letting him close his fist.

But it's only a matter of time before he does. And when that happens, defenses will turn to dust.

**Lzen** · 11-02-2021, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

Gore is whatever. Williams is too slow.

CEH is fine but he's always hurt.

Tarde a 7th for Phillip Lindsey.

Isn't Lindsay always hurt, too?

**Lzen** · 11-02-2021, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valiant

People have been clamoring for this gameplan for weeks. If ran earlier we would at least have two more wins.

It is how you shred the 2 deep. Then when they bring up the safeties. Play action with a double move and pump fakes.

The defense looked faster tonight as well.

That is exactly what happened in the Eagles game.

11-01-2021, 09:40 PM
petegz28 Supporter Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Olathe, Ks Casino cash: $-1115873	We saw the formula for this offense going forward against the Giants... As much as some don't want to admit or accept it, the fact is that the high-flying offense we have seen the last few years is gone for the moment. But we can change that if we force teams to defend something else. 1. Run the ball more. DW and Gore should be active in running and catching out of the backfield. Gore has patients and vision that CEH does not. 2. Take the shorter passes first and check down to the deeper pass. Quit waiting to see if someone deep will open up. Dink-dunk. 3. Patience. We ran the ball one drive for almost the entire drive and scored a TD. Next drive we never ran the ball once and punted. The simple fact is teams are daring us to run the ball and play the short game betting that we either won't stick with it or will **** ourselves. If we quit turning over the ball the rest we can do. Once we win a few games running the ball and playing ball control then teams will have no choice to start bringing more players down into the box and then we can go back to tearing shit up in the air. Until then, 6 or 7 in the box should be run or dink-dunk with some PA pass. The RPO stuff might have to take a bit of a backseat for a bit. Last edited by petegz28; 11-01-2021 at 09:46 PM..
Posts: 132,504

11-02-2021, 09:40 AM	#196
MahomesMagic Generational Player Join Date: May 2017 Location: Honolulu Casino cash: $320400	It must be hard for Andy Reid because he was the genius that evolved the WCO to make it a hybrid with college spread. But the NFL defenses are all moving in a direction that counters this. We need to go back to the past and use tighter formations, quick throws that get the WR's YAC, and go old school West Coast offense to counter attack. Fangio's disciples are all around the NFL and it is all about simple. DL beats up on guys in front, secondary plays back and is protecting deep. Make offenses execute down the field. Fangio's disciples took the Fangio scheme and simplified it. No blitzes unless they get home in 1.5 seconds.
Posts: 10,132

11-02-2021, 10:04 AM	#199
Chris Meck MVP Join Date: May 2001 Location: midtown KC Casino cash: $-1385090	Look; The Gore drive was excellent. That kind of thing running is available against 2 deep zones if you have a back that can exploit it. The other two really good drives (the one with the pick and the one TD to Hill) are also good examples of what you do against 2 deep safety defenses. You mix and match those two approaches, eliminate turnovers, and you win games big. Eventually you force teams to abandon the 2 deep look, and you get your one on one shots downfield. But until then, this is what people will do every single week forever, or until Mahomes and Reid show they can beat it. It's pretty simple, really. Power running+ quick passing+ Reid's patented jet sweep/pitch-pass sweep stuff. Slants. little quick crosses in the middle. Make them pay. don't fumble, don't throw INT's. Eat them alive. There is no other way to beat that defense. That's how you do it. You have to be disciplined. It's irritating, it's frustrating, and it plays on denying you want you WANT to do. Are you mature enough to beat it?
Posts: 19,472	2 0

11-02-2021, 10:09 AM	#200
wachashi Veteran Join Date: Jan 2019 Casino cash: $6300400	We had a lot of success exploiting the edges of the Giants defense with our speed. The sweeps picked up 10 yards a clip it seemed like. We're seeing safeties play so far back they can't help defend sweeps without first conceding yards. Only problem is that our wide receivers have to know they can't hold onto the defender as they block when they're literally two feet from an official (Pringle).
Posts: 1,399

11-02-2021, 10:20 AM	#206
tk13 ... Join Date: Nov 2001 Casino cash: $-1907500	Really that's part of the plan when teams play these soft defenses... if you can make the other team go 10-15 plays, you just increase the odds of a mistake. And that's what teams are banking on right now. It's not a small sample size at this point. We look like a team that is sloppy when we can't rip off a 3 or 4 play drive every once in a while.
Posts: 56,730	2 0

11-02-2021, 10:24 AM	#207
Chris Meck MVP Join Date: May 2001 Location: midtown KC Casino cash: $-1385090	ALSO once you prove that you CAN do the short, quick passing game and power running game, be patient and execute and score touchdowns most of the time- You will force the defenses (and the opposing offenses) into the things they DON'T want to do, because you're killing them in TOP. They'll start blitzing, and they'll start trying to play hero ball on offense because THEY will get desperate to try to score every play because you're not giving them enough opportunities to keep up with you. It's all a domino effect.
Posts: 19,472

11-02-2021, 10:39 AM	#208
wachashi Veteran Join Date: Jan 2019 Casino cash: $6300400	Patrick is energized by the deep ball. His confidence is fueled by the improbable long-bomb throws only he can make. Without them, he's reduced to merely a top-five NFL QB. Every 30+ yard completion is an Infinity Stone that he adds to his collection. He grows stronger with each one. Teams watch helplessly as 250 yards passing quickly becomes 500. His power accelerates exponentially. He's got the Infinity Gauntlet but teams aren't letting him close his fist. But it's only a matter of time before he does. And when that happens, defenses will turn to dust.
Posts: 1,399