Nick Bolton wins NFL defensive rookie of the month

[-King-]

Offensive and Defensive Rookies of the Month! (October)@ohthatsNajee22 | @_nickbolton2 pic.twitter.com/GiVZaAXUK8

— NFL (@NFL) November 4, 2021

[staylor26]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Trent Williams wasn't an alternative. He was Option A and he elected not to sign here.

Both parties gotta sign the deal, brah. Health issues or no, he elected to stay in SF. It is what it is.

Yea I shouldn’t have referred to him as an “alternative”, but many on CP don’t seem to understand the concept of free agents making their own choices (see Melvin Ingram).

But point is, in hindsight, I don’t know how I’d feel about that Trent Williams contract if he were showing signs of his body breaking down 8 games into it.

[RunKC]

Originally Posted by staylor26

I was told by you that there was no way that Veach could match his 2020 draft…

Not too hard now seeing that Clyde sucks

[Hammock Parties]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Left to Right (OBJ, Thuney, Humphrey, Smith, Niang)

70.8 -- 81.4 -- 70.6 -- 66.5 -- 58.2

Damn, Smith really dropped off recently.

About what I figured. Niang showed improvement last game.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by staylor26

Yea I shouldn’t have referred to him as an “alternative”, but many on CP don’t seem to understand the concept of free agents making their own choices (see Melvin Ingram).

But point is, in hindsight, I don’t know how I’d feel about that Trent Williams contract if he were showing signs of his body breaking down 8 games into it.

I think obviously a healthy Trent Williams would have been better than what we got, but that doesn't seem to be going well for the 9ers. Sometimes the best deals are the ones taht don't get made.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Hammock Parties

Damn, Smith really dropped off recently.

About what I figured. Niang showed improvement last game.

I haven't been tracking it week over week, but my memory has been that Smith's been making his PFF bones in the run game all season.

[IowaHawkeyeChief]

Originally Posted by Chargem

You're right, that was hastily typed - it's more like the trade was trash. Brown is probably an average LT, but not worth trading a 1st round pick and then what, having to let him walk or over pay him?

Do you even understand the trade? Bolton or Humphrey, or Bolton and Humphrey and no cheap Orlando Brown this year.

Oh, and I broke my rule arguing with an idiot...

[Chargem]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Again - the math doesn't check out here.

We gave up a 1st and a 3rd, we got a 2nd and Brown. 2 'players' in, 2 players out.

The players in were Brown and Bolton. The players out is subject to some conjecture but let's give this argument the benefit of the doubt and say its two solid players:

Joe Tryon to address our need at DE and, I dunno, Elijah Molden to backfill for losing Breeland.

So the trade at that point becomes:

Brown, Bolton and about $6 million in cap space (because without Brown we need to bring back Fisher) for Tryon and Molden.

How's this a bad trade again? This version of fisher is WORSE than Brown. By a fair amount. And without Bolten this defense would be fuuuuuuucked even moreso than it already is. Additionally, that $6 million in cap space is almost exactly what it cost to sign Reed and trade for Ingram. Now Reed's disappointed thus far but the book isn't written yet there and at worst he's allowed some rotational depth.

The Chiefs could let Brown walk for a comp pick after this season and not have lost this deal. If they tag him and THEN let him walk for a comp pick, it's a clear win. If they sign him long-term to a reasonable deal and get an above average LT for 5 years, it's a friggen home run.

This deal has essentially zero chance to be a 'bad' trade. It's nothing like the Clark deal (and trust me, I have NO problem calling out Veach for a bad move).

I just cannot understand how people are still upset about this trade.

I will never understand why people cannot remember deals. Funny starting your post talking about the math not adding up, but forgetting the Chiefs traded their 1st, 3rd and 4th 2021 picks and their 5th round pick in 2022 in exchange for the 2nd round pick of the Ravens in 2021, their 6th round pick in 2022 and Orlando Brown.

So sure, when you forget some of the picks we gave up, it was "two in, two out".

The various media outlets at the time basically said value wise, the Ravens 2nd for the Chiefs 3rd, 4th and 2022 pick swap was basically a wash, which is why people use the short hand of "1st round pick for OBJ".

[Chargem]

Originally Posted by IowaHawkeyeChief

Do you even understand the trade? Bolton or Humphrey, or Bolton and Humphrey and no cheap Orlando Brown this year.

Oh, and I broke my rule arguing with an idiot...

Sure, I'm the one who doesn't understand the trade. You mean the options were a 1st round pick, Bolton or Humphrey (kudos on getting his name right this time), a 3rd round pick and a 4th round pick, or Bolton and Humphrey and 1 cheap year of Orlando Brown.

[FloridaMan88]

Originally Posted by staylor26

Well for one, they aren’t even capable of looking at the alternatives.

Trent Williams has been in an out of the starting lineup.

Eric Fisher has been below average.

There aren’t any stud day 1 rookie LT’s that were available.

This is the core issue with criticizing Veach for making the OBJ trade.

He was the best of not great LT options realistically available to the Chiefs this offseason.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Chargem

I will never understand why people cannot remember deals. Funny starting your post talking about the math not adding up, but forgetting the Chiefs traded their 1st, 3rd and 4th 2021 picks and their 5th round pick in 2022 in exchange for the 2nd round pick of the Ravens in 2021, their 6th round pick in 2022 and Orlando Brown.

So sure, when you forget some of the picks we gave up, it was "two in, two out".

The various media outlets at the time basically said value wise, the Ravens 2nd for the Chiefs 3rd, 4th and 2022 pick swap was basically a wash, which is why people use the short hand of "1st round pick for OBJ".

I knew there were late round picks and omitted them because I just don't care. I've said it 100 times - I put effectively ZERO value on 5th round picks or beyond.

You wanna get in a knot over the 4th rounder - have at it. It's not moving the needle when you're talking about a trade involving a pro bowl tackle and a 1st round pick.

Anyone that told you a late 3rd and a late 4th (and some nothing of a pick swap) is the same as a second is very, very stupid. The second we got was pick 58. The 3rd and 4th we gave up were 94 and 136. Now from a mere 'trade calculator' perspective, the 94 and 136 will move you up to about the 86 pick (a far cry from 58). But admittedly, each year the draft is a bit different and different charts say different things.

So let's look at the ACTUAL draft. To move from 98 to 76 (again, a far cry from 58), the Saints had to give up pick 105 (a far more valuable pick than 136). So they gave up a significantly more valuable pick to move up half as far.

No, in no world does the Chiefs 3rd and 4th round picks (and a completely irrelevant pick swap) 'cancel out' the 2nd rounder.

It doesn't come close. The 'shorthand' is stupid.

[RunKC]

Originally Posted by KCChiefsFan88

This is the core issue with criticizing Veach for making the OBJ trade.

He was the best of not great LT options realistically available to the Chiefs this offseason.

And even with that move he drafted Bolton, Humphrey and Smith so it all worked out great.

I just hope Brown’s contract is manageable should we pay him

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry

We traded a first round pick for Orlando Brown and Nick Bolton. I think that is worth it easily.

which, to be even more fair, was #31.

[Lzen]

Originally Posted by staylor26

I think he’s better than “average” too.

He has a 74.3 grade on PFF. I know it’s PFF, but you don’t get grades like that being trash or even average.

At worst he’s above average, and if his play this year allows us to get him at a discount, I’m not against re-signing him either.

To give you perspective, Eric Fisher has a 63.1.

This is a great example of why PFF is garbage, at least for olinemen.

[staylor26]

Originally Posted by Lzen

This is a great example of why PFF is garbage, at least for olinemen.

Wait, are you under the impression that Eric Fisher is currently playing better football than Orlando Brown?

I’m not a fan of PFF, but i think those grades reflect what you see on the field.

[Lzen]

Originally Posted by staylor26

Wait, are you under the impression that Eric Fisher is currently playing better football than Orlando Brown?

I’m not a fan of PFF, but i think those grades reflect what you see on the field.

NM, I didn't realize you were talking about Fisher this year.