Other Sports The MLB lockout thread - Page 7

Deberg_1990 · 12-02-2021, 07:06 AM

Discussssss

To our Fans:

I first want to thank you for your continued support of the great game of baseball. This past season, we were reminded of how the national pastime can bring us together and restore our hope despite the difficult challenges of a global pandemic. As we began to emerge from one of the darkest periods in our history, our ballparks were filled with fans; the games were filled with excitement; and millions of families felt the joy of watching baseball together.

That is why I am so disappointed about the situation in which our game finds itself today. Despite the league’s best efforts to make a deal with the Players Association, we were unable to extend our 26 year-long history of labor peace and come to an agreement with the MLBPA before the current CBA expired. Therefore, we have been forced to commence a lockout of Major League players, effective at 12:01am ET on December 2.

I want to explain to you how we got here and why we have to take this action today. Simply put, we believe that an offseason lockout is the best mechanism to protect the 2022 season. We hope that the lockout will jumpstart the negotiations and get us to an agreement that will allow the season to start on time. This defensive lockout was necessary because the Players Association’s vision for Major League Baseball would threaten the ability of most teams to be competitive. It’s simply not a viable option. From the beginning, the MLBPA has been unwilling to move from their starting position, compromise, or collaborate on solutions.

When we began negotiations over a new agreement, the Players Association already had a contract that they wouldn’t trade for any other in sports. Baseball’s players have no salary cap and are not subjected to a maximum length or dollar amount on contracts. In fact, only MLB has guaranteed contracts that run 10 or more years, and in excess of $300 million. We have not proposed anything that would change these fundamentals. While we have heard repeatedly that free agency is “broken” – in the month of November $1.7 billion was committed to free agents, smashing the prior record by nearly 4x. By the end of the offseason, Clubs will have committed more money to players than in any offseason in MLB history.

We worked hard to find compromise while making the system even better for players, by addressing concerns raised by the Players Association. We offered to establish a minimum payroll for all clubs to meet for the first time in baseball history; to allow the majority of players to reach free agency earlier through an age-based system that would eliminate any claims of service time manipulation; and to increase compensation for all young players, including increases in the minimum salary. When negotiations lacked momentum, we tried to create some by offering to accept the universal Designated Hitter, to create a new draft system using a lottery similar to other leagues, and to increase the Competitive Balance Tax threshold that affects only a small number of teams.

We have had challenges before with respect to making labor agreements and have overcome those challenges every single time during my tenure. Regrettably, it appears the Players Association came to the bargaining table with a strategy of confrontation over compromise. They never wavered from collectively the most extreme set of proposals in their history, including significant cuts to the revenue-sharing system, a weakening of the competitive balance tax, and shortening the period of time that players play for their teams. All of these changes would make our game less competitive, not more.

To be clear: this hard but important step does not necessarily mean games will be cancelled. In fact, we are taking this step now because it accelerates the urgency for an agreement with as much runway as possible to avoid doing damage to the 2022 season. Delaying this process further would only put Spring Training, Opening Day, and the rest of the season further at risk – and we cannot allow an expired agreement to again cause an in-season strike and a missed World Series, like we experienced in 1994. We all owe you, our fans, better than that.

Today is a difficult day for baseball, but as I have said all year, there is a path to a fair agreement, and we will find it. I do not doubt the League and the Players share a fundamental appreciation for this game and a commitment to its fans. I remain optimistic that both sides will seize the opportunity to work together to grow, protect, and strengthen the game we love. MLB is ready to work around the clock to meet that goal. I urge the Players Association to join us at the table.
Manfred

Read a letter from the Commissioner: https://t.co/P4gRGSlfsu pic.twitter.com/zI40uGLTni
— MLB (@MLB) December 2, 2021

Statement from the Major League Baseball Players Association: pic.twitter.com/34uIGf762W
— MLBPA Communications (@MLBPA_News) December 2, 2021

DJ's left nut · 12-02-2021, 04:53 PM

Here's my post from way back when on the subject -- I used Correa as an example and suggested a 12/$250 deal that would've taken him through his arb years plus 8 years of FA.

https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/show...&postcount=726

And in the end he bet on himself and he'll probably beat that figure - but ultimately deals similar to those exist on the marketplace for players willing to pursue them. We seem them annually. Oh, and I projected him making $50 million in his pre-FA years - he made $20 million. So he'd need to beat 8/$230 or almost $30 million/yr. Combine that figure with the guaranteed element of it (so the 'stros can expect a discount by guaranteeing money 4 years before he'd otherwise get it) and man, that's REALLY close to what he could've reasonably been expected to seek. I had it damn near on the nose 4 years ago. And this isn't my job, fellas. The players and owners know what's reasonable. Many just choose not to pursue it.

Correa chose this route. As have many other players before him. Just as many others have gone the alternate route.

But it's like people complaining about high interest rates on credit cards. Of course they're high - this is unsecured debt. The risks CC companies take on is enormous many cases. Meanwhile mortgage and/or vehicle debt is often quite reasonable because it's secured.

MLB contracts with their guaranteed money are the sports equivalent of unsecured debt. If it goes bad - you're just boned. You're stuck with it. So yeah, teams are going to factor that in to what they're willing to pay. Especially to players that are less established.

suzzer99 · 12-02-2021, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Mike Trout's the best player in a generation and he's never led a single post-season inning.

Mama Hip Rockets · 12-02-2021, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry

You mean the NFL where only 6 franchises have made the Super Bowl from the AFC since 2003?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boxer_Chief

I could be wrong but I think that has mostly to do with the TV deal. Bally sports isn’t on any TV or streaming services hardly at all so this numbers are down. I would watch the royals every night before but couldn’t this year and I know many other teams have the same contract with Bally Sports. The Royals even in the bad years were smashing TV viewing in the area.

Edit - it mentions Bally but from what I’ve seen online that’s the biggest compliant from fans.

Yeah, I doubt those numbers are taking illegal streaming into consideration. Unfortunately, that's what a lot of fans had to resort to last year due to the terrible Bally deal.

**lewdog** · 12-02-2021, 06:13 PM

I wouldn’t watch soccer with a gun to my head. **** that sport and the pussies that play it.

Baseball will be fine by season start.

Chiefspants · 12-02-2021, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WilliamTheIrish

To this day, it’s what I love about the game.

I wish baseball would embrace this aspect of the game. Even in its heyday, regular season games featured fans coming off of work and taking a load off.

Hell, it's how I got my college friends to love baseball. They were skeptical (they didn't enjoy watching it on TV), but in 2013 I took them to games at the K and they loved the atmosphere and how laid back it was. They ended up getting on the Royals train at the perfect time, too.

Chief Pagan · 12-02-2021, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D.A.P.

Gun to your head: must watch one. Golf, soccer, baseball.

I pull out my phone and secretly watch hockey.

FloridaMan88 · 12-02-2021, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lewdog

Baseball will be fine by season start.

Yeah maybe they'll find a way to not have their World Series games get eclipsed by NFL preseason games, in terms of total TV viewers/ratings.

**lewdog** · 12-02-2021, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KCChiefsFan88

Yeah maybe they'll find a way to not have their World Series games get eclipsed by NFL preseason games, in terms of total TV viewers/ratings.

Something has to be second to the NFL.

And yes, it’s MLB not NBA or NHL.

Deberg_1990 · 12-02-2021, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lewdog

Something has to be second to the NFL.

And yes, it’s MLB not NBA or NHL.

MLS in 10 years

Chiefspants · 12-02-2021, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deberg_1990

MLS in 10 years

I heard this when I was 19 at KU, too, when my friends were driving up to see the newly named KC Sporting.

I am now 29.

**lewdog** · 12-02-2021, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deberg_1990

MLS in 10 years

Make a thread when it happens so I can neg rep your ass!!!

lcarus · 12-02-2021, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carr4MVP

MLBPA ruined baseball.

The strike of 1994 nearly killed the game.

I was a big baseball fan until that. I was really enjoying that Royals team at the time. After that. I only tuned in for the Royals 14 and 15 runs.

**Bearcat** · 12-02-2021, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lewdog

Something has to be second to the NFL.

And yes, it’s MLB not NBA or NHL.

And popularity kills things. Outside of going out of business, no one should want their favorite things to be wildly popular.

It's not high school, keep the **** away from my hockey before that's ruined, too. And stay off my lawn.

Deberg_1990 · 12-02-2021, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefspants

I heard this when I was 19 at KU, too, when my friends were driving up to see the newly named KC Sporting.

I am now 29.

In the 70s the top 3 U.S. sports were:

MLB
boxing
Horse racing

Times change

Chiefspants · 12-02-2021, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deberg_1990

In the 70s the top 3 U.S. sports were:

MLB
boxing
Horse racing

Times change

Football already eclipsed baseball in the 1970's.

12-02-2021, 07:06 AM
Deberg_1990 In Search of a Life Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: San Antonio Tx. Casino cash: $114454	The MLB lockout thread Discussssss To our Fans: I first want to thank you for your continued support of the great game of baseball. This past season, we were reminded of how the national pastime can bring us together and restore our hope despite the difficult challenges of a global pandemic. As we began to emerge from one of the darkest periods in our history, our ballparks were filled with fans; the games were filled with excitement; and millions of families felt the joy of watching baseball together. That is why I am so disappointed about the situation in which our game finds itself today. Despite the league’s best efforts to make a deal with the Players Association, we were unable to extend our 26 year-long history of labor peace and come to an agreement with the MLBPA before the current CBA expired. Therefore, we have been forced to commence a lockout of Major League players, effective at 12:01am ET on December 2. I want to explain to you how we got here and why we have to take this action today. Simply put, we believe that an offseason lockout is the best mechanism to protect the 2022 season. We hope that the lockout will jumpstart the negotiations and get us to an agreement that will allow the season to start on time. This defensive lockout was necessary because the Players Association’s vision for Major League Baseball would threaten the ability of most teams to be competitive. It’s simply not a viable option. From the beginning, the MLBPA has been unwilling to move from their starting position, compromise, or collaborate on solutions. When we began negotiations over a new agreement, the Players Association already had a contract that they wouldn’t trade for any other in sports. Baseball’s players have no salary cap and are not subjected to a maximum length or dollar amount on contracts. In fact, only MLB has guaranteed contracts that run 10 or more years, and in excess of $300 million. We have not proposed anything that would change these fundamentals. While we have heard repeatedly that free agency is “broken” – in the month of November $1.7 billion was committed to free agents, smashing the prior record by nearly 4x. By the end of the offseason, Clubs will have committed more money to players than in any offseason in MLB history. We worked hard to find compromise while making the system even better for players, by addressing concerns raised by the Players Association. We offered to establish a minimum payroll for all clubs to meet for the first time in baseball history; to allow the majority of players to reach free agency earlier through an age-based system that would eliminate any claims of service time manipulation; and to increase compensation for all young players, including increases in the minimum salary. When negotiations lacked momentum, we tried to create some by offering to accept the universal Designated Hitter, to create a new draft system using a lottery similar to other leagues, and to increase the Competitive Balance Tax threshold that affects only a small number of teams. We have had challenges before with respect to making labor agreements and have overcome those challenges every single time during my tenure. Regrettably, it appears the Players Association came to the bargaining table with a strategy of confrontation over compromise. They never wavered from collectively the most extreme set of proposals in their history, including significant cuts to the revenue-sharing system, a weakening of the competitive balance tax, and shortening the period of time that players play for their teams. All of these changes would make our game less competitive, not more. To be clear: this hard but important step does not necessarily mean games will be cancelled. In fact, we are taking this step now because it accelerates the urgency for an agreement with as much runway as possible to avoid doing damage to the 2022 season. Delaying this process further would only put Spring Training, Opening Day, and the rest of the season further at risk – and we cannot allow an expired agreement to again cause an in-season strike and a missed World Series, like we experienced in 1994. We all owe you, our fans, better than that. Today is a difficult day for baseball, but as I have said all year, there is a path to a fair agreement, and we will find it. I do not doubt the League and the Players share a fundamental appreciation for this game and a commitment to its fans. I remain optimistic that both sides will seize the opportunity to work together to grow, protect, and strengthen the game we love. MLB is ready to work around the clock to meet that goal. I urge the Players Association to join us at the table. Manfred Read a letter from the Commissioner: https://t.co/P4gRGSlfsu pic.twitter.com/zI40uGLTni — MLB (@MLB) December 2, 2021 Statement from the Major League Baseball Players Association: pic.twitter.com/34uIGf762W — MLBPA Communications (@MLBPA_News) December 2, 2021
Posts: 68,665

12-02-2021, 04:53 PM	#91
DJ's left nut Sauntering Vaguely Downwards Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Columbia, Mo Casino cash: $-840901	Here's my post from way back when on the subject -- I used Correa as an example and suggested a 12/$250 deal that would've taken him through his arb years plus 8 years of FA. https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/show...&postcount=726 And in the end he bet on himself and he'll probably beat that figure - but ultimately deals similar to those exist on the marketplace for players willing to pursue them. We seem them annually. Oh, and I projected him making $50 million in his pre-FA years - he made $20 million. So he'd need to beat 8/$230 or almost $30 million/yr. Combine that figure with the guaranteed element of it (so the 'stros can expect a discount by guaranteeing money 4 years before he'd otherwise get it) and man, that's REALLY close to what he could've reasonably been expected to seek. I had it damn near on the nose 4 years ago. And this isn't my job, fellas. The players and owners know what's reasonable. Many just choose not to pursue it. Correa chose this route. As have many other players before him. Just as many others have gone the alternate route. But it's like people complaining about high interest rates on credit cards. Of course they're high - this is unsecured debt. The risks CC companies take on is enormous many cases. Meanwhile mortgage and/or vehicle debt is often quite reasonable because it's secured. MLB contracts with their guaranteed money are the sports equivalent of unsecured debt. If it goes bad - you're just boned. You're stuck with it. So yeah, teams are going to factor that in to what they're willing to pay. Especially to players that are less established. __________________ "If there's a god, he's laughing at us.....and our football team..." "When you look at something through rose colored glasses, all the red flags just look like flags."
Posts: 66,853	1 0

12-02-2021, 06:13 PM	#94
lewdog Mod Team Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Valley of the hot as **** Casino cash: $-1568100	I wouldn’t watch soccer with a gun to my head. **** that sport and the pussies that play it. Baseball will be fine by season start.
Posts: 46,353	1 0