Football Your assessment of Brandon Staley - Page 8

Deberg_1990 · 12-17-2021, 07:27 AM

Says he’s sticking with his 4th down approach……..good for him.

Chargers coach Brandon Staley isn't changing his ways: He says he will continue to go for it on fourth down, even after three out of Los Angeles' five attempts Thursday night failed in a 34-28 overtime defeat to the Kansas City Chiefs.

"I felt really comfortable with all those decisions," Staley said after the loss, which dropped the Chargers two games behind the Chiefs in the AFC West standings with three to play. "That's the way we're going to play around here. That's the way we're going to play. When we have a quarterback like ours, and we have an offense like ours, that's the way we're going to play because that's how you need to play against Kansas City, for sure. That's how we're going to become the team that we're ultimately capable of being, by playing that way."

The Chargers entered the game 13 for 21 on fourth downs this season, giving them the fourth-most conversions in the league. Their conversion percentage (61.9) was tied for eighth best in the NFL.

Two of Los Angeles' failed attempts to convert came inside the Kansas City 5, and another was on the edge of field goal range. The Chargers became the first team to fail twice on fourth-and-goal in a first half since the 1984 Chargers did the same -- also against the Chiefs -- 37 years ago to the day (Dec. 16, 1984).

Quarterback Justin Herbert said he stands by his coach and his decisions on fourth down.

"It's always tough and you'd love to be able to convert those," Herbert said. "I think we need to be better on third downs so that we're not in those situations, but we believe in each other. We believe in the guys in that locker room and that huddle, and we believe in the defense. I think that's a statement of trusting everyone on the field and off the field, as well. We love to be put in those situations. Unfortunately, we didn't convert as many as we would've liked to have today, but we're going to ride with each other and we're going to be right back."

With Patrick Mahomes and Tyreek Hill on the other sideline, Staley and his coaching staff realized no lead would be safe until the clock ran out. That's why they never stopped trying to score in all situations: Only the very last of the Chargers' 10 drives ended in a punt.

"It's life in the NFL, in decision-making like that. ... I know that the quickest way to win a game like that is to score touchdowns, not field goals, especially considering who's on the other side," Staley said. "When you don't feel like it's a gamble, when you feel like this is an advantage for you, then that's going to be our mindset. And I don't think that any decision that we made tonight, that I made tonight, was a gamble. We felt like it was an advantage situation for us, and that's why we did it.''

Herbert and his teammates came agonizingly close to proving Staley correct.

Donald Parham seriously injured himself while coming down just out of bounds with a catch in the back of the end zone on the Chargers' failed fourth down from the Kansas City 5 on the game's opening drive.

Four drives later on the final snap of the first half, Herbert was in the shotgun on fourth down from the Kansas City 1 -- but Daniel Sorensen got his hand on a quick out to Keenan Allen, wiping out a potential TD pass and leaving the Chargers' halftime lead at only 14-10 despite 208 yards of offense on five solid drives.

The Chargers' only drive of the third quarter ended at the Kansas City 28 when Herbert and Jared Cook couldn't connect on a fourth-and-2 pass. Cook also dropped a probable touchdown pass on second down during that final drive before halftime.

After Thursday's game, the Chargers have now gone for it on fourth down 29.9% of the time this season. That's the highest rate for any team since the 2007 Jacksonville Jaguars (30.0%).

"We felt like it was an advantage situation for us," Staley explained. "That's why we did it. If we didn't feel like that was the case, then we would have kicked a field goal or we would have punted. That's the way that we're going to do things around here. I know that our team embraces that mindset. We're going to continue to do it every game we play moving forward."

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/...way-going-play

"The quickest way to win a game like that is to score touchdowns not field goals, especially considering who's on the other side."

Chargers coach Brandon Staley on being aggressive on 4th down against the Chiefs. pic.twitter.com/4mskizFo2J
— CBS Sports HQ (@CBSSportsHQ) December 17, 2021

suzzer99 · 12-17-2021, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

Analytics don't take intangible factors into account. In baseball, I think maybe they're more
dependable. In football, emotion plays such a role, especially as the game wears on and guys are tired.

Stacking 3's when The Chiefs were playing poorly on offense was the smart move and I don't care what the analytics say. To get nothing after driving all the way down inside the 10 multiple times kept The Chiefs in the game and had to demoralize both his offense and his defense.

I agree with this to some degree. We were getting dominated at the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball. The Chargers want to minimize variance in that situation, not maximize it. Staley was going for it like we were slinging it all over and they need to swing for the fences to keep up.

That said - most of the decisions except the one that ended the half were like +3-5% WP. I think that's way too much to pass up in most spots regardless of momentum or emotion or w/e.

Sorce · 12-17-2021, 02:48 PM

The criticism of he left 9 pts on the field is flawed. One of the attempts worked, you can't give them a TD when they converted and then say what if with the others. One they converted, fumbled then we threw an int. If you are saying they always kick on 4th they don't turn it over, get the pick and score.

So by not going for it they are +1 not 9.

suzzer99 · 12-17-2021, 02:49 PM

This was always going to be the issue with coaches going for it more on 4th down. Inevitably they'll have a bad variance game, and the national media will have a field day, fans will get disgruntled (fortunately for the Chargers they have no fans). And you know that stuff filters to the players. If other things start going wrong, the players may start doubting the renegade coach.

So when the bad luck streak from the higher variance (but correct) plays inevitably happens, will the coach stick to his guns? Will the coach have enough clout and people skills to keep from losing the players? That's always been the big question to me.

Staley seems like a really good coach. But we don't know how he is on the practice field and in the locker room. He might be too much of a cold fish or something. If he's really good in the locker room *and* sticks to his guns, it's going to earn him extra wins, which is scary as hell to have in our division with Herbert at QB.

ThaVirus · 12-17-2021, 02:53 PM

I've noticed he's getting eviscerated online today, but I actually like most of those decisions.

The only one I didn't agree with was going for it from 5 yards out.

I'm sure he was feeling bold after the result of going for it on 4th and 9 against us earlier in the year..

suzzer99 · 12-17-2021, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaFace

And on the other side, most of us would have felt a little relief if they'd just kicked it in most of those situations. That's a pretty good indicator that we know deep down that going for it is the best option.

I actually wanted them to go for it, because I felt like they were dominating us and our best chance was to get a little lucky with 4th down stops or turnovers. But it's close either way in my mind.

To your point - normally I would strongly want a team to kick the FG there.

suzzer99 · 12-17-2021, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old Dog

It's been said for a few years now that you aren't going to beat the Chiefs with 3's.

2018-2020? Absolutely. This year? Eh.

suzzer99 · 12-17-2021, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

See, I'm fine with the Chiefs doing it too.

With the 3 defenders they had out last night, the defense was hanging in by a thread. Fourth and 1 from the 2, go for it. IF you don't get it, you've got them pinned back for your defense.

And then they go on a 99-yard back-breaking TD drive that completely gasses your already tired defense.

It sounds weird to say but there are situations where I think teams should go for it more deep in their own territory late in the game - specifically because giving up a quick score is better than a long drive - for time reasons and for gassing your defense reasons.

Like get your defense right into the red zone, hopefully they can hold them to a FG or against Staely - get a 4th down stop. Then you get the ball back and your defense wasn't totally gassed. I think there might be some very specific situations where going for it on 4th in your own territory is a better idea than it seems.

Anyway just thinking out loud.

zigbazah · 12-17-2021, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suzzer99

This was always going to be the issue with coaches going for it more on 4th down. Inevitably they'll have a bad variance game, and the national media will have a field day, fans will get disgruntled (fortunately for the Chargers they have no fans). And you know that stuff filters to the players. If other things start going wrong, the players may start doubting the renegade coach.

So when the bad luck streak from the higher variance (but correct) plays inevitably happens, will the coach stick to his guns? Will the coach have enough clout and people skills to keep from losing the players? That's always been the big question to me.

Staley seems like a really good coach. But we don't know how he is on the practice field and in the locker room. He might be too much of a cold fish or something. If he's really good in the locker room *and* sticks to his guns, it's going to earn him extra wins, which is scary as hell to have in our division with Herbert at QB.

The thing about probability is that it pays off for you eventually but you don't always get eventually, especially in sports. I think if last night's game were played 100 times, the Chargers win most of them, but there's no world where that can happen.

Football has such a short season too. There's more variance than in other games. I feel like it's pretty difficult for a coach to brush off results oriented thinking in a structure like the NFL where every individual result is so crucial. It's way, way easier to lose a few games in leagues like MLB or the NBA.

O.city · 12-17-2021, 03:41 PM

He had 11 against a 6 and kept doubling down.

Just got the wrong cards

BigChiefTN · 12-17-2021, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

He had 11 against a 6 and kept doubling down.

Just got the wrong cards

I like the analogy.
And that same crap happens to me all
of the time we in Vegas. This last time
the dealer actually was excited when he drew a 5 card 21 to my 19. I felt
like Clark Griswald… lol

O.city · 12-17-2021, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigChiefTN

I like the analogy.
And that same crap happens to me all
of the time we in Vegas. This last time
the dealer actually was excited when he drew a 5 card 21 to my 19. I felt
like Clark Griswald… lol

Flip the table and fight that mother ****er is the correct answer

Wallcrawler · 12-17-2021, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sorce

The criticism of he left 9 pts on the field is flawed. One of the attempts worked, you can't give them a TD when they converted and then say what if with the others. One they converted, fumbled then we threw an int. If you are saying they always kick on 4th they don't turn it over, get the pick and score.

So by not going for it they are +1 not 9.

What?

The dolts were 2-5 on fourth downs.

3 pure fails. All easy fgs. 9 points left out there.

**DaFace** · 12-17-2021, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wallcrawler

What?

The dolts were 2-5 on fourth downs.

3 pure fails. All easy fgs. 9 points left out there.

Why do you say it's a fail and easy points when it doesn't work but discount the TD that came from a conversion. They also should have had another if it wasn't for the fumble.

You also seem to be forgetting that we just lost to them a couple months ago when they went for it on 4th down and eventually got a TD. They won the game by 6.

**PHOG** · 12-17-2021, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaFace

Why do you say it's a fail and easy points when it doesn't work but discount the TD that came from a conversion. They also should have had another if it wasn't for the fumble.

You also seem to be forgetting that we just lost to them a couple months ago when they went for it on 4th down and eventually got a TD. They won the game by 6.

The 4th and 9 or whatever it was? That was heavily ref aided (more normally called a bullshit penalty), there's not a doubt about that.

**Rausch** · 12-17-2021, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suzzer99

2018-2020? Absolutely. This year? Eh.

Especially in a game where only 1 of them would have actually done it...

12-17-2021, 07:27 AM
Deberg_1990 In Search of a Life Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: San Antonio Tx. Casino cash: $294454	Your assessment of Brandon Staley Says he’s sticking with his 4th down approach……..good for him. Chargers coach Brandon Staley isn't changing his ways: He says he will continue to go for it on fourth down, even after three out of Los Angeles' five attempts Thursday night failed in a 34-28 overtime defeat to the Kansas City Chiefs. "I felt really comfortable with all those decisions," Staley said after the loss, which dropped the Chargers two games behind the Chiefs in the AFC West standings with three to play. "That's the way we're going to play around here. That's the way we're going to play. When we have a quarterback like ours, and we have an offense like ours, that's the way we're going to play because that's how you need to play against Kansas City, for sure. That's how we're going to become the team that we're ultimately capable of being, by playing that way." The Chargers entered the game 13 for 21 on fourth downs this season, giving them the fourth-most conversions in the league. Their conversion percentage (61.9) was tied for eighth best in the NFL. Two of Los Angeles' failed attempts to convert came inside the Kansas City 5, and another was on the edge of field goal range. The Chargers became the first team to fail twice on fourth-and-goal in a first half since the 1984 Chargers did the same -- also against the Chiefs -- 37 years ago to the day (Dec. 16, 1984). Quarterback Justin Herbert said he stands by his coach and his decisions on fourth down. "It's always tough and you'd love to be able to convert those," Herbert said. "I think we need to be better on third downs so that we're not in those situations, but we believe in each other. We believe in the guys in that locker room and that huddle, and we believe in the defense. I think that's a statement of trusting everyone on the field and off the field, as well. We love to be put in those situations. Unfortunately, we didn't convert as many as we would've liked to have today, but we're going to ride with each other and we're going to be right back." With Patrick Mahomes and Tyreek Hill on the other sideline, Staley and his coaching staff realized no lead would be safe until the clock ran out. That's why they never stopped trying to score in all situations: Only the very last of the Chargers' 10 drives ended in a punt. "It's life in the NFL, in decision-making like that. ... I know that the quickest way to win a game like that is to score touchdowns, not field goals, especially considering who's on the other side," Staley said. "When you don't feel like it's a gamble, when you feel like this is an advantage for you, then that's going to be our mindset. And I don't think that any decision that we made tonight, that I made tonight, was a gamble. We felt like it was an advantage situation for us, and that's why we did it.'' Herbert and his teammates came agonizingly close to proving Staley correct. Donald Parham seriously injured himself while coming down just out of bounds with a catch in the back of the end zone on the Chargers' failed fourth down from the Kansas City 5 on the game's opening drive. Four drives later on the final snap of the first half, Herbert was in the shotgun on fourth down from the Kansas City 1 -- but Daniel Sorensen got his hand on a quick out to Keenan Allen, wiping out a potential TD pass and leaving the Chargers' halftime lead at only 14-10 despite 208 yards of offense on five solid drives. The Chargers' only drive of the third quarter ended at the Kansas City 28 when Herbert and Jared Cook couldn't connect on a fourth-and-2 pass. Cook also dropped a probable touchdown pass on second down during that final drive before halftime. After Thursday's game, the Chargers have now gone for it on fourth down 29.9% of the time this season. That's the highest rate for any team since the 2007 Jacksonville Jaguars (30.0%). "We felt like it was an advantage situation for us," Staley explained. "That's why we did it. If we didn't feel like that was the case, then we would have kicked a field goal or we would have punted. That's the way that we're going to do things around here. I know that our team embraces that mindset. We're going to continue to do it every game we play moving forward." https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/...way-going-play "The quickest way to win a game like that is to score touchdowns not field goals, especially considering who's on the other side." Chargers coach Brandon Staley on being aggressive on 4th down against the Chiefs. pic.twitter.com/4mskizFo2J — CBS Sports HQ (@CBSSportsHQ) December 17, 2021
Posts: 68,448

12-17-2021, 02:48 PM	#107
Sorce Veteran Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kansas City, MO Casino cash: $6208777	The criticism of he left 9 pts on the field is flawed. One of the attempts worked, you can't give them a TD when they converted and then say what if with the others. One they converted, fumbled then we threw an int. If you are saying they always kick on 4th they don't turn it over, get the pick and score. So by not going for it they are +1 not 9.
Posts: 2,447	0 2

12-17-2021, 02:49 PM	#108
suzzer99 In Search of a Life Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: L.A. Casino cash: $-615716	This was always going to be the issue with coaches going for it more on 4th down. Inevitably they'll have a bad variance game, and the national media will have a field day, fans will get disgruntled (fortunately for the Chargers they have no fans). And you know that stuff filters to the players. If other things start going wrong, the players may start doubting the renegade coach. So when the bad luck streak from the higher variance (but correct) plays inevitably happens, will the coach stick to his guns? Will the coach have enough clout and people skills to keep from losing the players? That's always been the big question to me. Staley seems like a really good coach. But we don't know how he is on the practice field and in the locker room. He might be too much of a cold fish or something. If he's really good in the locker room and sticks to his guns, it's going to earn him extra wins, which is scary as hell to have in our division with Herbert at QB.
Posts: 28,353

12-17-2021, 02:53 PM	#109
ThaVirus 5 o’clock free crack giveaway Join Date: Sep 2007 Casino cash: $-1637631	I've noticed he's getting eviscerated online today, but I actually like most of those decisions. The only one I didn't agree with was going for it from 5 yards out. I'm sure he was feeling bold after the result of going for it on 4th and 9 against us earlier in the year..
Posts: 46,935

12-17-2021, 03:41 PM	#114
O.city In Search of a Life Join Date: Jul 2009 Casino cash: $-555936	He had 11 against a 6 and kept doubling down. Just got the wrong cards
Posts: 84,159	1 0