Brian Flores suing the NFL

[Sassy Squatch]

Oh wow, Brian Flores suing the NFL and NY Giants, alleging racism in hiring. Includes private texts from Bill Belichick https://t.co/4FVAlelLQU

— Alex Weprin (@alexweprin) February 1, 2022

Flores' suit includes texts from Bill Belichick that appear to show him congratulating him on getting the Giants job, mistakenly believing he was texting Brian Daboll. This was before Flores' interview with the Giants took place.

— Alex Weprin (@alexweprin) February 1, 2022

[OnTheWarpath15]

Originally Posted by staylor26

Relative to population, 4 would be appropriate.

You’ve already acknowledged that playing and management are two completely different things, so the league being 70% black means nothing.

Well, it means nothing to you.

The rest of us realize that:

Because it is very hard to believe that out of the enormous, disproportionately black pool of athletes who have played the game, captained their team and had off the charts football IQ the pipeline shouldn’t be way deeper. Or that these guys are overwhelmingly under qualified to run locker rooms they grew up around. That is a qualification that is an enormous resume boost. It doesn’t add up that this wouldn’t translate well to coaching.

So yeah, when the numbers are disproportionately black you don’t expect for the coaching to be overwhelmingly not black.

Like Nick Wright said this morning - you wouldn't raise an eyebrow or think there was an issue if 30/32 NHL teams had black NHL coaches - despite the labor force being overwhelmingly white?

Based on your takes here, you'd be screaming from the mountaintops what an injustice it is.

You keep want to focus on a singular instance here and there to make your argument, while ignoring the decades of this happening. (to the point they had to make a ****ing rule about it, and now incentivize teams for grooming black coaches)

But hey, there's a handful of black GM's and one HC - so problem solved in your eyes.

[BleedingRed]

Yeah after reading the suit he was fired for being a ****ing reerun.........

[The Franchise]

Originally Posted by staylor26

Look, I’m not saying that Mac Jones is good. I’m saying that all things considered, he had a pretty successful year for a rookie QB, and that is obviously a good look for McDaniels.

I think people realize that he got the most out of him, and that’s really all that matters.

Nobody is pretending that he turned him into Mahomes or Herbert, because that’s not the expectation there and never was.

Not enough to get a HC job after the shit he’s pulled, no.

[Rams Fan]

Originally Posted by staylor26

But it’s Detroit.

And they hired him in the first place.

And they now have a black GM.

Both of their 2020 coordinators were black too.

Nothing to do with race.

I never said in Caldwell’s instance it had to do with race. He shouldn’t have been fired in the first place.

I also get teams not wanting to hire a HC who is 67, either.

There are other issues/instances of racial problems regarding hiring practices in the NFL.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Originally Posted by staylor26

Relative to population, 4 would be appropriate.

You’ve already acknowledged that playing and management are two completely different things, so the league being 70% black means nothing.

I never said problem is solved, but let’s not pretend that blacks aren’t getting GM jobs either.

What, 4-5 out of 32?

Is that something you think the league should be proud of?

[FloridaMan88]

Originally Posted by Rams Fan

Well, I don’t think Caldwell should’ve been fired in the first place from Detroit.

Billick, Fassel, Martz all left after a losing season.

Caldwell didn’t.

Raheem Morris was 4-12 in his last season as Tampa’s HC and had a 17-31 record in 3 years as a HC with zero playoff appearances… but he’s “owed” a second HC opportunity with that mediocre resume?

[rabblerouser]

Originally Posted by BleedingRed

Yeah after reading the suit he was fired for being a ****ing reerun.........

No one wants to take accountability or admit culpability for why they are where they are, and the race card gets played damn near every time someone reeruns.

[Eureka]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Because it is very hard to believe that out of the enormous, disproportionately black pool of athletes who have played the game, captained their team and had off the charts football IQ the pipeline shouldn’t be way deeper. Or that these guys are overwhelmingly under qualified to run locker rooms they grew up around. That is a qualification that is an enormous resume boost. It doesn’t add up that this wouldn’t translate well to coaching.

So yeah, when the numbers are disproportionately black you don’t expect for the coaching to be overwhelmingly not black.

These are some good points you make. I read the following on the Raiders forum.

Sure, but most of them were not good:

SB coaches:
Todd McVay - Played 3 years as WR at Miami of Ohio. 39 career receptions.
Zac Taylor - Wake Forest, Butler CC, and Nebraska as QB. Winnipeg Blue Bombers practice squad for one year.

Other Conference Championship Coaches:
Andy Reid - O-Tackle at Glendale CC and BYU
Kyle Shanahan - WR at UT Austin. 13 receptions.

Other Divisional Round Coaches:
Mike Vrabel - Solid NFL career with some Pro Bowl, All Pro, and SB rings.
Matt LeFleur - WR and QB at Western Michigan and Saginaw State
Bruce Arians - QB at Virginia Tech
Sean McDermott - S at William and Mary

Other Wild Card Coaches:
Rich Bissacia - DB Yankers College
Bill Belichick - C and TE at Wesleyan
Mike Sirianni - WR at Mount Union
Mike McCarthy - TE Scottsdale CC (Fighting Artichokes) and Baker University
Mike Tomlin - WR William and Mary
Kliff Kingsberry - QB at Texas Tech. NFL (1 completion career), NFL Europe, and CFL

While we're at it:

Brian Flores - LB Boston College
Josh McDaniel - John Carroll University

So, all of these coaches have some college playing experience, but only two were ever on an NFL roster, and only one of them was a legit player. Most played for tiny college programs - less than half were DI. There's just not that much correlation between success as a player and success as a coach. There's a whole lot of great players who were horrible coaches: Wayne Gretzky, Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Ted Williams, Isiah Thomas...

All this said, I think we will see an increase in black head coaches in the next 5-10 years. There seems to be a number of good, young candidates out there.

[BleedingRed]

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath15

What, 4-5 out of 32?

Is that something you think the league should be proud of?

Yeah the league should be much more proud of forcing teams to consider people on the basis of their skin color!

[rabblerouser]

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath15

What, 4-5 out of 32?

Is that something you think the league should be proud of?

We are talking about 13% of the population, right?

Numbers are correlative, right?

Then what's the ****ing problem?

[rabblerouser]

Originally Posted by BleedingRed

Yeah the league should be much more proud of forcing teams to consider people on the basis of their skin color!

No shit.

[staylor26]

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath15

Well, it means nothing to you.

The rest of us realize that:




Like Nick Wright said this morning - you wouldn't raise an eyebrow or think there was an issue if 30/32 NHL teams had black NHL coaches - despite the labor force being overwhelmingly white?

Based on your takes here, you'd be screaming from the mountaintops what an injustice it is.

You keep want to focus on a singular instance here and there to make your argument, while ignoring the decades of this happening. (to the point they had to make a ****ing rule about it, and now incentivize teams for grooming black coaches)

But hey, there's a handful of black GM's and one HC - so problem solved in your eyes.

Well that would obviously be different. It is an apple to oranges comparison due to population.

The overwhelming majority of the labor force doesn’t go into coaching/management.

As I’ve already pointed out, most of the best coaches didn’t even play in the NFL. Andy, BB, Shanahan, and McVay are arguably the best 4 in the NFL, and neither played in the NFL. I just don’t see the correlation in playing in the NFL and being a great HC.

Also, I love how you probably think I’m some white guy that is a racist hypocrite because I disagree with you on this issue. I’m Cuban you dumb ****. I wouldn’t be screaming anything.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Originally Posted by KCChiefsFan88

Raheem Morris was 4-12 in his last season as Tampa’s HC and had a 17-31 record in 3 years as a HC with zero playoff appearances… but he’s “owed” a second HC opportunity with that mediocre resume?

1.) Who said that?

2.) It would take me hours to find all the white HC's with similar resumes that received second chances.


Zac Taylor was like 9-23 before Burrow came along, now he's a goddamn genius. Meanwhile, stats show that black coaches aren't likely to get the time that Taylor (as one example) did to turn it around.

Culley won 4 games with Davis ****ing Mills and the worst roster in the league, and Flores (again, just two examples) was fired after back to back winning seasons where the owner wanted to tank - with a similarly shitty roster.

[BleedingRed]

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath15

1.) Who said that?

2.) It would take me hours to find all the white HC's with similar resumes that received second chances.


Zac Taylor was like 9-23 before Burrow came along, now he's a goddamn genius. Meanwhile, stats show that black coaches aren't likely to get the time that Taylor (as one example) did to turn it around.

Culley won 4 games with Davis ****ing Mills and the worst roster in the league, and Flores (again, just two examples) was fired after back to back winning seasons where the owner wanted to tank - with a similarly shitty roster.

So you're saying if you wanna tank for a pick hire a black HC so you can check two boxes at once?

[staylor26]

This was a great post and goes with exactly what I just said about the labor force having little to do with coaching/management.

Sure, but most of them were not good:

SB coaches:
Todd McVay - Played 3 years as WR at Miami of Ohio. 39 career receptions.
Zac Taylor - Wake Forest, Butler CC, and Nebraska as QB. Winnipeg Blue Bombers practice squad for one year.

Other Conference Championship Coaches:
Andy Reid - O-Tackle at Glendale CC and BYU
Kyle Shanahan - WR at UT Austin. 13 receptions.

Other Divisional Round Coaches:
Mike Vrabel - Solid NFL career with some Pro Bowl, All Pro, and SB rings.
Matt LeFleur - WR and QB at Western Michigan and Saginaw State
Bruce Arians - QB at Virginia Tech
Sean McDermott - S at William and Mary

Other Wild Card Coaches:
Rich Bissacia - DB Yankers College
Bill Belichick - C and TE at Wesleyan
Mike Sirianni - WR at Mount Union
Mike McCarthy - TE Scottsdale CC (Fighting Artichokes) and Baker University
Mike Tomlin - WR William and Mary
Kliff Kingsberry - QB at Texas Tech. NFL (1 completion career), NFL Europe, and CFL

While we're at it:

Brian Flores - LB Boston College
Josh McDaniel - John Carroll University

So, all of these coaches have some college playing experience, but only two were ever on an NFL roster, and only one of them was a legit player. Most played for tiny college programs - less than half were DI. There's just not that much correlation between success as a player and success as a coach. There's a whole lot of great players who were horrible coaches: Wayne Gretzky, Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Ted Williams, Isiah Thomas...

All this said, I think we will see an increase in black head coaches in the next 5-10 years. There seems to be a number of good, young candidates out there.