The MLB lockout thread

[Deberg_1990]

Discussssss

To our Fans:

I first want to thank you for your continued support of the great game of baseball. This past season, we were reminded of how the national pastime can bring us together and restore our hope despite the difficult challenges of a global pandemic. As we began to emerge from one of the darkest periods in our history, our ballparks were filled with fans; the games were filled with excitement; and millions of families felt the joy of watching baseball together.

That is why I am so disappointed about the situation in which our game finds itself today. Despite the league’s best efforts to make a deal with the Players Association, we were unable to extend our 26 year-long history of labor peace and come to an agreement with the MLBPA before the current CBA expired. Therefore, we have been forced to commence a lockout of Major League players, effective at 12:01am ET on December 2.

I want to explain to you how we got here and why we have to take this action today. Simply put, we believe that an offseason lockout is the best mechanism to protect the 2022 season. We hope that the lockout will jumpstart the negotiations and get us to an agreement that will allow the season to start on time. This defensive lockout was necessary because the Players Association’s vision for Major League Baseball would threaten the ability of most teams to be competitive. It’s simply not a viable option. From the beginning, the MLBPA has been unwilling to move from their starting position, compromise, or collaborate on solutions.

When we began negotiations over a new agreement, the Players Association already had a contract that they wouldn’t trade for any other in sports. Baseball’s players have no salary cap and are not subjected to a maximum length or dollar amount on contracts. In fact, only MLB has guaranteed contracts that run 10 or more years, and in excess of $300 million. We have not proposed anything that would change these fundamentals. While we have heard repeatedly that free agency is “broken” – in the month of November $1.7 billion was committed to free agents, smashing the prior record by nearly 4x. By the end of the offseason, Clubs will have committed more money to players than in any offseason in MLB history.

We worked hard to find compromise while making the system even better for players, by addressing concerns raised by the Players Association. We offered to establish a minimum payroll for all clubs to meet for the first time in baseball history; to allow the majority of players to reach free agency earlier through an age-based system that would eliminate any claims of service time manipulation; and to increase compensation for all young players, including increases in the minimum salary. When negotiations lacked momentum, we tried to create some by offering to accept the universal Designated Hitter, to create a new draft system using a lottery similar to other leagues, and to increase the Competitive Balance Tax threshold that affects only a small number of teams.

We have had challenges before with respect to making labor agreements and have overcome those challenges every single time during my tenure. Regrettably, it appears the Players Association came to the bargaining table with a strategy of confrontation over compromise. They never wavered from collectively the most extreme set of proposals in their history, including significant cuts to the revenue-sharing system, a weakening of the competitive balance tax, and shortening the period of time that players play for their teams. All of these changes would make our game less competitive, not more.

To be clear: this hard but important step does not necessarily mean games will be cancelled. In fact, we are taking this step now because it accelerates the urgency for an agreement with as much runway as possible to avoid doing damage to the 2022 season. Delaying this process further would only put Spring Training, Opening Day, and the rest of the season further at risk – and we cannot allow an expired agreement to again cause an in-season strike and a missed World Series, like we experienced in 1994. We all owe you, our fans, better than that.

Today is a difficult day for baseball, but as I have said all year, there is a path to a fair agreement, and we will find it. I do not doubt the League and the Players share a fundamental appreciation for this game and a commitment to its fans. I remain optimistic that both sides will seize the opportunity to work together to grow, protect, and strengthen the game we love. MLB is ready to work around the clock to meet that goal. I urge the Players Association to join us at the table.
Manfred

Read a letter from the Commissioner: https://t.co/P4gRGSlfsu pic.twitter.com/zI40uGLTni

— MLB (@MLB) December 2, 2021

Statement from the Major League Baseball Players Association: pic.twitter.com/34uIGf762W

— MLBPA Communications (@MLBPA_News) December 2, 2021

[suzzer99]

$200M+ payroll creates good teams. Breaking stuff.

[jd1020]

Originally Posted by suzzer99

$200M+ payroll creates good teams. Breaking stuff.

3 teams. WOOOOOOOW!

Teams like the Browns must be really unlucky with everything being equal and all in the NFL. The NBA really put a stop to these super teams being formed with the addition of a salary cap. It's really incredible how the MLBPA doesn't just pick up on the parity shown in other sports.

[Rasputin]

I might miss watching the few Royal games a year I watch but if it's to keep from seeing or hearing Joe Buck then it's probably for the best. He literally ruins baseball and football too with Troy Achman.

[Ocotillo]

Originally Posted by jd1020

As if the NFL and NBA has more competitive balance than MLB because of a salary cap.

Do you even wonder why the MLBPA doesn't pursue a salary cap? Because it will do nothing but give the owners an ironclad excuse to cut spending. Something every single ****ing one of them can afford to do more of.

The owners already use the competitive balance tax as a reason not to spend. Last year the Phillies, Yankees, Mets, Red Sox and Astros had their payrolls in the $205-209.99 million range, just short of the $210 million competitive balance tax. Only the Dodgers and the Padres went over.

Look at Carlos Correa. In a non-competitive balance tax world, he'd probably have 4-5 teams legitimately interested in him. But with the CBT, it kind of gets narrowed down to 1 or 2 teams. Nobody even knows where he might end up. What a disgrace. He was the best defensive SS in baseball last year.

Before the outlier spending spree of November 2021, the last two non-COVID free agent markets were just so stagnant. Unlike the NFL where the big names sign within hours, it's been stale to follow MLB free agency and wait for Bryce Harper to sign in late February. Teams that should be putting bids on Harper, didn't because of the CBT.

[suzzer99]

Would either side be ok with the current CBT and a hard floor of $150M? Or maybe $120M is more realistic, I dunno.

[Ocotillo]

Originally Posted by Shiver Me Timbers

Short attention span nation. Baseball is a "time" investment.

I really do not think there is a way to fix it. Too boring for the younger generations.

Baseball isn't consumed as a TV sport to begin with. You don't need to watch games on TV to follow it. I feel like fans follow it by seeing a box score, following game tracker, listening to a few innings on the radio in their car, maybe watching a game on a weeknight when it's convenient for them. Most people even just have it on the TV as background noise.

I do still feel that baseball, along with soccer and basketball, is what kids first take up when they first get involved in sports around ages 4-7. Playing the sport creates interest.

But the problem now with baseball, I feel like 20-30 years ago, most kids were still playing past Little League in Babe Ruth or Pony. Nowadays though, the kids that are sticking with baseball past Little League are the "all star" players and the others that don't make all-stars are ditching the sport.

[Ocotillo]

Originally Posted by suzzer99

Would either side be ok with the current CBT and a hard floor of $150M? Or maybe $120M is more realistic, I dunno.

The CBT will be at a minimum $214 million in this new deal, that's the owners' latest proposal. The players are countering with $245 million as the CBT.

The owners already proposed a salary floor of $100 million but the MLBPA didn't take it seriously because the CBT was $180 million in the same deal.

I don't think we're going to have a floor in this deal. The MLBPA has already proposed lowering annual revenue sharing by $30 million because they feel like the small market teams like the Rays and the Pirates aren't using the revenue sharing money toward payroll.

[jd1020]

Originally Posted by Ocotillo

The owners already use the competitive balance tax as a reason not to spend. Last year the Phillies, Yankees, Mets, Red Sox and Astros had their payrolls in the $205-209.99 million range, just short of the $210 million competitive balance tax. Only the Dodgers and the Padres went over.

Look at Carlos Correa. In a non-competitive balance tax world, he'd probably have 4-5 teams legitimately interested in him. But with the CBT, it kind of gets narrowed down to 1 or 2 teams. Nobody even knows where he might end up. What a disgrace. He was the best defensive SS in baseball last year.

Before the outlier spending spree of November 2021, the last two non-COVID free agent markets were just so stagnant. Unlike the NFL where the big names sign within hours, it's been stale to follow MLB free agency and wait for Bryce Harper to sign in late February. Teams that should be putting bids on Harper, didn't because of the CBT.

Look at Carlos Correa in a year where there aren't 4 or 5 other options for a top tier SS. The guy probably has 3-4 teams legitimately interested in him as it sits with all but 1 of the other options signing. His market is already small because of the money he's going to get but its even smaller this year because a team like the Rangers could go sign Semien and Seager, or the Tigers signing Baez, or whoever is going to sign Story.

And like I said, the owners already don't spend so putting in a hard cap is giving them exactly what they want. Theres a handful of teams that go above the CBT but no one continuously goes over it every year because of the compounding penalties for doing so.

Every MLB franchise is worth over a billion dollars. You think teams like Royals can't put more money into their roster annually? What the **** does a hard cap do to balance the playing field? Nothing. Theres nothing even about the playing field. Every team isn't working with the same market. Every team isn't working with the same geographic location. Every team isn't working with owners that want to put a little more investment into their company. I dont follow NHL, but anyone saying that baseball doesn't have more parity than sports with a salary cap like the NFL and NBA, probably the NHL too but I dont know, are ****ing dumb. The answer isn't a salary cap and its why the MLBPA isn't fighting for one.

[suzzer99]

Originally Posted by Ocotillo

The CBT will be at a minimum $214 million in this new deal, that's the owners' latest proposal. The players are countering with $245 million as the CBT.

The owners already proposed a salary floor of $100 million but the MLBPA didn't take it seriously because the CBT was $180 million in the same deal.

I don't think we're going to have a floor in this deal. The MLBPA has already proposed lowering annual revenue sharing by $30 million because they feel like the small market teams like the Rays and the Pirates aren't using the revenue sharing money toward payroll.

Well I can think of one solution to make small market teams spend more money.

[Ocotillo]

Originally Posted by jd1020

Look at Carlos Correa in a year where there aren't 4 or 5 other options for a top tier SS. The guy probably has 3-4 teams legitimately interested in him as it sits with all but 1 of the other options signing. His market is already small because of the money he's going to get but its even smaller this year because a team like the Rangers could go sign Semien and Seager, or the Tigers signing Baez, or whoever is going to sign Story.

And like I said, the owners already don't spend so putting in a hard cap is giving them exactly what they want. Theres a handful of teams that go above the CBT but no one continuously goes over it every year because of the compounding penalties for doing so.

Every MLB franchise is worth over a billion dollars. You think teams like Royals can't put more money into their roster annually? What the **** does a hard cap do to balance the playing field? Nothing. Theres nothing even about the playing field. Every team isn't working with the same market. Every team isn't working with the same geographic location. Every team isn't working with owners that want to put a little more investment into their company. I dont follow NHL, but anyone saying that baseball doesn't have more parity than sports with a salary cap like the NFL and NBA, probably the NHL too but I dont know, are ****ing dumb. The answer isn't a salary cap and its why the MLBPA isn't fighting for one.

Speaking of Baez, the Tigers just invested six years, $140 million into him after he posted a 64% contact rate and 5% walk rate last season. Another thing that's never mentioned is that many teams eliminate themselves out of contention with foolish spending.

You bring up the Royals, the Padres were the Royals of the NL. They had fire sales in 1993 and 1999. They have arguably the worst market in baseball with the ocean to the west, the desert and Arizona's market to the east and Mexico to the south (which is every team's territory). They are the only franchise to hand out two $300 million contracts. The Padres have turned the small market can't spend argument on its ear.

[Ocotillo]

Originally Posted by suzzer99

Well I can think of one solution to make small market teams spend more money.

The small market teams are going to spend more in this CBA anyway because minimum salaries are going up and it looks like pre-arb players, that perform at a high level, are going to get paid early.

I think the MLBPA has been weary of a salary floor because it believes it will give teams an excuse to go over the threshold and justify not spending more because they met the requirements.

[suzzer99]

Originally Posted by Ocotillo

Speaking of Baez, the Tigers just invested six years, $140 million into him after he posted a 64% contact rate and 5% walk rate last season. Another thing that's never mentioned is that many teams eliminate themselves out of contention with foolish spending.

You bring up the Royals, the Padres were the Royals of the NL. They had fire sales in 1993 and 1999. They have arguably the worst market in baseball with the ocean to the west, the desert and Arizona's market to the east and Mexico to the south (which is every team's territory). They are the only franchise to hand out two $300 million contracts. The Padres have turned the small market can't spend argument on its ear.

Ewing Kauffman spent like a big market team, trying to win one more title in his last few years of life. But given the overall track record of small market teams - I don't think it's realistic to expect all, or even a majority of them to act like the late 80s/early 90s Royals or 2017+ Padres.

Which is my whole point. The players' position seems to be to blame the small market owners and try to shame them into spending more, and then when (almost certainly) that doesn't happen, the players are still fine with the status quo. As a fan I'm not fine with the status quo. It sucks.

We have an example of a sport in this country where small market teams out-compete the big boys on a regular basis, and that sport has never been more popular. It's an infinitely better product at this point.

[Marcellus]

Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry

8 different champions in the last 8 years

Yea you can tell who talks about baseball and who actually watches baseball.

[suzzer99]

I swear before this year the answer about why the MLB can't work like the NFL was always that too much of the revenues are local instead of national, and big-market owners will never share that much money with small market owners.

Am I crazy or was that always the refrain for decades?

[Ocotillo]

Originally Posted by suzzer99

Ewing Kauffman spent like a big market team, trying to win one more title in his last few years of life. But given the overall track record of small market teams - I don't think it's realistic to expect all, or even a majority of them to act like the late 80s/early 90s Royals or 2017+ Padres.

Which is my whole point. The players' position seems to be to blame the small market owners and try to shame them into spending more, and then when (almost certainly) that doesn't happen, the players are still fine with the status quo. As a fan I'm not fine with the status quo. It sucks.

I feel you about the status quo. I get sick of seeing the Athletics and Rays trade off their young stars and not keep them.

But here's the issue with some of the small market owners, they will go to their city leaders and say we need a new ballpark to compete with the Yankees, Dodgers. The taxpayers will take of them and spend over a billion dollars for their new ballpark and then nothing changes.

The Pirates and Marlins being prime examples. Their way of operating has not changed even with new ballparks.

I wonder if even a new park for the A's or Rays would drastically change the way they operate.